The Deathwatch thread for ME shows

[feena191]

Quote:

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and now with a child on the way

---

but she had him a few weeks ago, so why the present pregnant tense?



Feena

-x-

---------------------------------------

How's he gonna read that magazine rolled up like that?

~ Famous last words of an insect

[helpful information perha]

going back to the discussion we were having on page 46 of this thread - looks like levin is pushing tarzan and his mid season replacement one tree hill



'Tarzan,' 'One Tree Hill' Find Showrunners

Fri, May 23, 2003 12:52 PM PDT



LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) - Two former executive producers of "Party of Five" have landed jobs at The WB, taking show-running duties on the network's new dramas.



P.K. Simonds will join "Tarzan and Jane," the Frog's 21st-century update of the Tarzan story, while Ann Lewis Hamilton will go to work on the midseason drama "One Tree Hill," according to The Hollywood Reporter.



Simonds joins a "Tarzan" producing team that includes writer/co-executive producer Eric Kripke, executive producers Laura Ziskin ("Spider-Man" ) and David Gerber, and co-exec producer Molly Newman ("7th Heaven," "Lucky" ).



Hamilton, an Emmy nominee on "thirtysomething," will work on "One Tree Hill" alongside Mark Schwahn, who wrote the pilot.



"We've wanted to work with Ann for years," says Mike Tollin of Tollin-Robbins Productions, which is producing the family drama with Warner Bros. TV. "Her voice will be the perfect complement to Mark's."



Finding strong show-running teams for the network's dramas was a point of emphasis for the network this spring. WB Entertainment President Jordan Levin says the experience last season with "Birds of Prey," which never really found a showrunner, made him realize that new shows need "either [to] have a team in place, or we know going in that we've got to find someone."

[xita]

the man makes no sense, but I guess that isn't a surprise.



First: But when you have an increasingly large ensemble week-by-week, and you come in in your [fifth] year kind of having to revamp the show and trim the budget and also think creatively, "How am I going to service all of these people?," sometimes the people who have been around the longest, you've done the most with them.



So part of the decision was at least to get rid of a regular in a bloated show and trim budget.



Yet when asked specifically, he says:



"Whedon: That's a hell of a thing to lay on James. It was a creative decision that we made before Spike came over to the show,"



Yeah the decision was to trim the cast and save money, for what exactly? OH yes, to bring James Marsters in. Anyway, no one lays it on James, they lay it on you



This greate creative genius can't think of what to do with Cordelia? He thinks he took her story as far as it would go. Couldn't the same be said for Spike? He's a hero, let his ashes scatter to the wind.

Charisma says she is under contract like David, hmm... interesting.

Edited by: xita  at: 5/27/03 7:25:28 am

[jixer]

Hello Kittens-



Showrunners have been found for the replacements, the leading lady has been written out, and the pre-spin is in place i.e. "that's a hell of a thing to lay on James". Not good signs after a better than average AtS season. Add to that "too many cooks spoil the broth" and the fact that the head chef is wedging himself into the AtS kitchen



I'm wondering if the next sacrificial goat for the denial banquet is JM. My take on the spin will be something like:



"We couldn't afford both Charisma and James, he wanted too much."

"We tried to get Cordy back but the story we need to tell just wouldn't allow it. I love Charisma, but the story is all important. Real fans know that."

"James just wasn't able to bring the Spike fans to the show. We shouldn't blame James. He's been the heart of the show this season."

"Angel will be back. I just love this story too much."

And in 2004:

"I'm concentrating on getting Firefly ready for a big screen development. It's what the fans want."





Jixer

[emma peel]

I really wish one of the Angel or Buffy former cast members would really come out and and verbally blast Jay-Dubya, but that's prolly a pipe dream of mine.

Oh, yeah, I don't smoke. That's been the problem with jossie boy and Mutant Enema, huh? What they are smoking.

Sheesh.

Janice

[Ben Varkentine]

Just remember the immortal words of Jane Ace, Emma: Time wounds all heels. I suspect we will see Mr. Whedon recieve a few blasts in his time, but that's what it's going to take: Time. Maybe years. It might even be, as it largely was with Gene Roddenberry, after his death.

Or it could be in on the "E! True Hollywood Story" in a couple of weeks. I guess we won't know til we get there.



ETA: Come to think of it, isn't it "a hell of a thing to lay on James" to be the one to keep Angel alive? Since by all reports that I've seen, that was the deal-breaker for the WB, if next season turns out to be the last for Angel it might well be seen as James Marsters faliure as much as Joss Whedons or David Boreanz.



Gosh, I'm looking forward to that season.



Not.



(Forgive me, I don't often indulge, but some things just call for a "not.")

Ben



"Any frontal attack on ignorance is bound to fail because the masses are always

ready to defend their most precious possession."

Edited by: Ben Varkentine at: 5/27/03 6:04:40 pm

[kajo 2000]

From the Deseret News:

Quote:

---

Spike is in; Cordelia is out

Renewed 'Angel' revamps its cast

Tuesday, May 27, 2003

By Scott D. Pierce, pierce@desnews.com

Deseret News television editor



Despite the fact that he died in the series finale of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," Spike (James Marsters) will indeed be joining the cast of "Angel" in the fall. However, while Cordelia (Charisma Carpenter) isn't dead — she's just in a coma — that character won't be back on the WB series.



As to how, exactly, Spike will be resurrected after helping save the world from The First and closing the Sunnydale hellmouth, well, even the folks running the WB don't know.



"I'm waiting word from (creator/executive producer) Joss (Whedon) on that as well," said WB Entertainment president Jordan Levin. "He's obviously a very creative person who hasn't let us down in the past and I'm sure that he will figure out a way."



He's done it before. Buffy died and returned — twice. Lilah returned from the dead (as exactly what, we don't know) earlier this month.



And Darla (like Spike, a vampire) was resurrected on "Angel" — as a mortal. Which leaves open the question of what Spike will be.



As for Carpenter and Cordelia, nobody is talking much except to say that Charisma will not be part of the show next year. "It makes way for characters like Spike and others," said Levin.



"Others" like various members of the "Buffy" cast who will be making guest appearances. And, possibly, more.



"Not full-time cast members, but there will be appearances from other characters, and we'll see how that evolves," Levin said. As to whether Buffy (Sarah Michelle Gellar) herself shows up, he left open that possibility. "Who knows?"



While there was a lot of behind-the-scenes maneuvering about a fifth-season renewal for "Angel," Levin said it was an "easy" choice that "felt like the right thing to do."



" 'Dawson's Creek,' I think, really taught us the value of being able to provide closure for a show that's been important to audiences and important, really, to the people who've worked on it for so long. Including us at the network. And with 'Angel,' it felt like it would've been extremely abrupt to have brought it to an end — brought the whole mythology of 'Buffy' to an end."



What it came down to was a negotiation with 20th Century Fox, which produces the show, over what the WB would be willing to pay for it. Similar negotiations for a sixth season of "Buffy" had failed, sending that show to UPN for its final two years.



Levin said the WB will pay Fox, which produces the show, more for season five — meaning the network won't make a profit on "Angel" but "we needed a number that we could be close to break-even ."



It will also be a homecoming of sorts for Whedon, who will be working full time on "Angel" next season, and a number of other "Buffy" producers and writers who will move over.



"Part of the appeal was sort of getting the whole team back together and bringing this all back into the WB," Levin said. "We still, obviously, feel a real strong, proprietary interest in 'Buffy.' I know for all of us here the fact that when 'Buffy' had its finale . . . it was emotionally a big deal for all of us at the network. We were exchanging calls with Joss and Sarah and (executive producer) Marti Noxon and the rest of the gang, congratulating them and letting them know what they meant for us and what they meant for TV. I was really proud."



And he expressed at least tentative interest in the idea of another "Buffy" spinoff — a possibility that is still being bandied about, possibly for 2004, provided "there's an idea there that, thematically, has something to say. I'm not sure that I would expect anything less from Joss."



Plus, Levin signaled that perhaps Whedon, who had a major falling out with the WB after the "Buffy" negotiations went sour two years ago, is ready to return to the fold after that show spent two years on little-watched UPN and Fox canceled "Firefly" after but a handful of episodes.



"After his experiences at other networks, I think there's, hopefully, a deeper appreciation — it seems that there is — for what we did in the partnership that we've had with him," Levin said.

---

---------

"I want to be Byron... because I want to date young boys." Amber Benson

[helpful information perha]

sounds to me like Levin is saying whedon is eating crow and crawling back



it also sounds to me like levin is expecting angel to end - ie "taught us the value of being able to provide closure for a show"

So he's expecting to cash in on the "buffy" crowd by playing out angel's ending on the WB

[xita]

ugh, these short term memories at the WB , ugh..

[helpful information perha]

UPN didn't bother to run buffy reruns this week - it ran a rerun of its reality series instead



from media week

"In promising news on UPN, week two of reality hour America's Next Top Model notched a 3.4/ 5 at 9 p.m. -- 21 percent ahead of a repeat of Smallville on the WB (2.8/ 4). Comparatively, that's 17 percent above its debut one week earlier (2.9/ 4 on May 21). At 8 p.m., a repeat of the first episode of America's Top Model averaged a 2.5/ 4 -- 14 percent below a repeat of the WB's Gilmore Girls (2.9/ 5).





Primetime in 2003-04:

ABC Sunday Breakdown

7:00 p.m. Funniest Home Videos (new day and time)

8:00 p.m. *10-8

9:00 p.m. Alias

10:00 p.m. The Practice (back to its old time period)



CBS

7:00 p.m. 60 Minutes

8:00 p.m. *COLD CASE

9:00 p.m. Sunday Movie



NBC

7:00 p.m. Dateline

8:00 p.m. American Dreams

9:00 p.m. Law & Order: Criminal Intent

10:00 p.m. *THE LYONS DEN



FOX

7:00 p.m. Oliver Beene (new time)

7:30 p.m. King of the Hill

8:00 p.m. The Simpsons

8:30 p.m. *THE ORTEGAS

9:00 p.m. Malcolm in the Middle

9:30 p.m. *ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT



WB

7:00 p.m. Smallville: Beginnings

8:00 p.m. Charmed

9:00 p.m. *TARZAN AND JANE



The Sunday Lowdown:

-Six new series.

-Programming changes on all five networks

-Three returning series in new time periods.

-Repeats of Smallville in place of Gilmore Girls on the WB at 7 p.m. ET.

Although the good news for fans of ABC's The Practice is an eighth season back in its established Sunday 10 p.m. time period, the loss of six core actors, including Dylan McDermott, means this half-baked renewal will likely send viewers over to Rob Lowe in new legal drama The Lyons Den on NBC. Airing out of the rock-solid Law & Order: Criminal Intent, NBC is the network to beat from 9-11 p.m. Maybe Lowe's departure from The West Wing wasn't such a bad idea after all. As for The Practice, is anyone else thinking After The P*R*A*C*T*I*C*E*? Maybe they should sign up Jamie Farr as one of the new lawyers.



On another expected Sunday of seesaw leadership, even a diluted 60 Minutes on CBS is enough of a lead-in to give the compatible Cold Case an audience at 8 p.m. Considering how well Murder, She Wrote did in this hour (the Angela Lansbury drama ranked in the top 10 in seven of its 11 seasons in households airing here), the mystery/forensics oriented Cold Case looks like a definite keeper. With the new drama expected to skew older, the show to beat at 8 p.m. among adults 18-49 remains Fox's The Simpsons.



As for Fox on Sunday, the promising news is The Ortegas, the perfect looking fit out of The Simpsons and into the returning Malcolm, who is really in the middle now with little baby Jamie in the mix. Less likely to succeed: Arrested Development, which is expected to sink into oblivion a la former time period occupants The Pitts and Andy Richter Controls the Universe.



Opposite Fox's The Simpsons and The Ortegas, NBC's American Dreams and Charmed on the WB, new ABC drama 10-8 might find it difficult maintaining the young adults tuning into the network's relocated Funniest Home Videos at 7 p.m. Without the benefit of a better lead-in, Alias will remain nothing more than a core favorite. Also considered a long shot is the WB's Tarzan and Jane, which could drive the network bananas (laugh track, please) if it loses a good portion of its Charmed lead-in.

In terms of leadership, although CBS has a lock in the 7-9 p.m. block in households and total viewers, unless their Sunday movie is something worth watching (those Hallmark Hall of Fame titles are generally a quick cure for insomnia) Law & Order: Criminal Intent and The Lyons Den could give NBC the overall advantage in both categories. As for adults 18-49, consider that a battle between ABC, NBC and Fox.

[kajo 2000]

Here are some posts from the Cordelia/Angel message board, Stranger Things:



Posted by Jake:

Quote:

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Received a PM elsewhere from a purported WB insider to the effect that it is purely Joss' decision whether Charisma was to come back, not the network's.

---

Posted by Shalazar (webmaster of charisma-carpenter.com):

Quote:

---

I was actually surprised he kinda-sorta came clean about firing her. I've been biting my tongue on that for weeks.



I still am not allowed to talk about everything that I know. But since Joss said it, I'd just point everyone to the end of the interview. The real story lies here:



"Yeah, but that's also stuff between us and not stuff that I would talk about in an interview."



Stuff done and said by Joss, stuff to make Joss look like even more of an ass than he already is.



Money and JM, while contributing factors, are only collateral issues.

---

Posted by Morrigan:

Quote:

---

There are two spoiler sources on The WB board that seem to be duking it out on this subject (in a very nice way), it seems like a very distinct possibility that The WB is already in talks with ME on a Spike-centric spin-off for next season.



If that's the case, I do think that Spike will 'take over' AtS as it will end up being the launching pad for his show.

---

---------

"I want to be Byron... because I want to date young boys." Amber Benson

Edited by: kajo 2000 at: 5/28/03 9:24:09 am

[emma peel]

Shit, that's all we need, a spinoff on Spike the Attempted Rapist. I'll bet there will be lots of revisions in Spike's history before that show would air.

I like JM, but I wish he could give up on Spike and go on to do other things, like run the hell away from asshole Jay-Dubya and Mutant Enema, even though it might not be financially the best thing for him to do... like a young woman with integrity we all know and love did.

Janice

[WebWarlock]

Well shit.



That really puts a stopper on the idea that the WB might cancel 'Angel' early, now that they are all but prodigal soning Joss.



Ooo. Spike the Attempted Rapist, Serial Killer, the Series. Each week he obsesses over the female lead. I'll bet it will be a touching story of redemption, one souled vampire's search for his place in the world. On a motorcycle no less. Whatever.



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side,
home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks

"There has to be an invisible sun. It gives its heat to everyone.

There has to be an invisible sun. That gives us hope when the whole day's done." - The Police Invisible Sun

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

---

That really puts a stopper on the idea that the WB might cancel 'Angel' early, now that they are all but prodigal soning Joss.

---

Not necessarily. The WB could just be gloating because Joss had to crawl back to them.



If Angel's numbers don't get any better - which is the same thing as saying they lose a big chunk of the Smallville audience - I don't think Joss's grovelling is going to save the show. Under those circumstances, I'd say the best they can hope for is a feeble limp to a series finale at the end of an abbreviated season. And if Spike-dominated episodes don't do well, that could kill the spinoff chances, too.

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[helpful information perha]

I for one don't see angel holding smallvilles lead in - and I don't see spike causing any major ratings rise for angel



whedon's following has already sampled angel and those who are interested are watching - adding spike but removing cordi well I see that as a net loss



looking at buffys numbers - Whedon followed WB's mandates and catered to a female audience with a fem hero who had a strong moral center for 5 years - he branded the show for a teen/tween fem audience that strongly attached to the "romantic" buffy/angel soulmate story



when he sent angel to his own show and took the gang to college he lost audience share - which he made up for by introducing a second romantic/"soulmate" couple that could capture the disallusioned xena/gab audience - he introduced willow and tara and built their relationship grabbing a nice increase in his adult demo



When he got picked up by UPN he tried to rebrand for UPN's young male demographic and the result was a uproar and exodus that included a boycott from the gay community who felt sold out over tara's death.



Whedon upped the sex/violence/sexual violence/fem denigration/murder of women in his attempt to follow the Hollywood recipe for attracting the young male gaze.



He opened on UPN with Bargaining 1-2 that featured a salute to the WWE with a mutant biker gang that spewed rape threats (the mutant gang's anatomy was going to tear the female scoobies up so they may not survive the rape).

Where as Buffy would previous not "slay" in front of Dawn, now Dawn was pausing in witness to impaled/axed demon's graphically bleeding.

In one of the most graphic ploys to grab the disenfrancised young male fearful of a woman in a leadership position - whedon had the biker gang chase down the Buffy bot and graphicly tear it limb from limb.

Barg 1-2 was a clear signal that the buffy verse had changed - big time



Season 6 had a salute to the "three stooges" gang of slapstick nerd boys as the villains.

The ante on sexual violence was constantly raised through out the season (Warrens girlfriend was drugged, kidnapped, sexually exploited and ultimately when she stood up for herself murdered.

Willow was the taste/rape victim of her pusher.

Spikes obsession with Buffy was rewarded with denigrating sadomasochistic sex.

xanders awakening to (and played on screen) repressed violence against Anya resulted in leaving her at the alter

and after a three year relationship where the lesbian couple were always clothed and kisses were rare, they are shown in their first on screen naked sexual encounters only to have one immediately snuffed beside the bed they had just shared and the other turned evil murderer.



Season 6 ended with the once strong fem lead left fighting mud people and her intelligent and powerful sidekick a emotional cripple and murderer - who had to be saved by the two white males (giles/xander) who were in the end left as the ultimate heroes



The violence and denigration continued this year with Willow "eaten alive"; Buffy a school employee now seducing a student; the women folk having to be saved from the love jacket spell by the white males; - a constant parade of dead women ever episode; the blatant Willow/JFK kisses for the male gaze; "weak" fems offing themselves; The slayer actually being the rape and enslaved victim of black males who left a watcher legacy, etc.



And in the end we had Spike the vampire layer emerge as the ultimate hero (with an assist from Angel) -



while Willow was manipulated (sinceTara wasn't there to stand up to the gang as she had previoius when hallie had them trapped in the house and prevent them from using willow to do a spell to save their butts) again to do a spell

this time she goes on a "white" as opposed to "black" orgasmic high - and to do what exactly?

- oh yes -

Buffy who has for how many years now lamented not being able to be 'just a girl'/being "called" to a legacy of being raped and impregnated with the power of evil/enslavement to the task of the watchers - well what does she do - oh yah - she like the watchers who "did" the first - uses willow to now force every single women in the line to be 'called' - so as to all carry the legacy of male rape/impregnation with the power of evil - Now there's empowerment all right - NOT!





Take a walk through the numbers



National numbers for Season 6

Buffy opened strong on UPN

4.3/7 Barg 1-2

3.7/6 AL

3.5/6 Flooded



the initial sampling settled into a solid mid three

3.5/6 LS

3.7/5 ATW

3.4/5 OMWF

3.6/5 TR



Then Whedon pushed the audience too far, Buffy's coupling with spike and Willows drug problems/break up with Tara, sent the audience to the remotes The UPN boards were lite up like Christmas trees with folks blasting the denigration of the "hero" - young women were angered for being "sold out." The B/S sex next to a dumpster and from behind at the Bronze soured even more viewers and the national numbers declined steadily



3.4/5 Smashed

3.7/6 Wrecked

3.3/5 Gone

3.5/5 DM



Internet rage built

3.3/5 DT

3.1/5 O&FA

3.1/5 AYW



interest was perked for xander/anya's wedding

3.4/5 HB



but the weren't happy with the result

3.2/5 Norm



people were pissed at Normals "its all a dream" tweak at the audience and the show took another ratings plunge



2.8/5 entropy

2.7/4 SR



Seeing Red left a very bitter audience. Raping the Hero and Killing the lesbian NOT a crowd pleaser

3.2/5 Vils

3.3/5 TTG/G



some returned to see Dark Magic Willow but the damage was done. Buffy off fighting mud people while Xander saved the world from a woman out for murderous revenge and unable to handle her power, signaled the ultimate demise of the fem hero show.



May 10th 2002 the Boston Hearld took Whedon over the coals for his treatment of minorities calling Sunnydale "clan country" and the damn burst on a flood of bad press over the show, especially press over the killing of Tara.





For the first time ever Buffy opened a new season with a rating BELOW the number it ended the previous season with. The opening ep/pilot for Dawn the vampire slayer and her new high school buddies didn't fly and the obvious revamps and screen testing of characters trying to find a spin off winner did little to stem the audience erosion post Nov sweeps.



Nationals Season 7

ep 1 - 3.1

ep 2 - 3.1

ep 3 - 3.0

ep 4 - 3.0

ep 5 - 3.1

ep 6 - 2.9 start Nov sweeps

ep 7 - 3.1

ep 8 - 3.0

ep 9 - 2.8 end sweeps



and it was all down hill from there



ep 10 -2.7

ep 11 -2.6

ep 12 -2.3



The fans of Willow/Tara were not coming back for Willow/JFK.



ep 13 -2.4 sweeps/fem kisses 3.46 mil watching

ep 14 2.6 sweeps/black guest singer 4.2 mil



ep 15 2.4 sweeps/fem rape 3.43 mil watching



ep16 2.3 sweeps/fem kisses 3.63 mil watching



ep 17 2.3 spike back story only 3.4 million watching (and WB thinks he's going to boost Angels ratings?)



ep 18 2.3 ep 22 spoilers have broken



ep 19 2.3



ep 20 2.6 - 4.00 million watch the sexfest prior to the big battle



ep 21 2.4



ep 22 2.9 That's all for the last ep ever?!



Spike with an assist from angel saves the world - and buffy has just forced all women in the line to carry the rape/impregnation with evil power legacy - while willow is ditzy from a "white" high

Edited by: helpful information perhaps at: 5/28/03 2:00:16 pm

[WebWarlock]

HIP and Bob,



Don't get me wrong. I am in way support of the evidence!



I don't see Angel holding on to Smallville's numbers at all. They are two completely different kinds of shows.



But I have scratched my head before at the "intelligence" of the network execs before (I mean come on, Angel actually got renewed) and I am sure I will do so again.



Let's just hope the Cordy fans leave the show en masse.



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side,
home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks

"There has to be an invisible sun. It gives its heat to everyone.

There has to be an invisible sun. That gives us hope when the whole day's done." - The Police Invisible Sun

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

---

it seems like a very distinct possibility that The WB is already in talks with ME on a Spike-centric spin-off for next season.

---

Something I should have pointed out earlier - I'm sure that someone at the WB has already been talking to Joss about a Spike spinoff for 2004, but so what? It means nothing. Talk in Hollywood means nothing. It goes on all the time. There are probably at least ten times as many projects that are talked about but never made as there are projects that get made. That's show biz.



In Mutant Enemy's case, we've already seen that in action, with the cartoon, the Ripper spinoff and now the Willow and Faith spinoffs. Talk in Hollywood means nothing.

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[Ben Varkentine]

Do you suppose that anyone at the WB will give any more than a moments thought to the fact that we've already kinda seen what a Spike-focused series was like, and it didn't exactly burn up the ratings?

Ben



"Any frontal attack on ignorance is bound to fail because the masses are always

ready to defend their most precious possession."

[Culzean]

Well, just to play devil's advocate - if a Spike spin-off could be produced at a low enough budget, I could see the folks at the WB at least entertaining the thought.



Just as the movie industry has a preference for sequels and re-makes, the TV industry love spin-offs. There's automatic buzz and audience recogition. It may seem like less of a risk than original programing.



Not to say that I think it's a good idea. I don't think there would be any chance of even short term success. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone wasn't at least talking about a Spike spin-off.



Of course, if Angel gets cancelled after it's next season, and then Spike goes on the air and gets cancelled midseason - that could be kinda fun.

[helpful information perha]

Ben - yep they did the spike show this year on buffy - and the ratings nose dived - heck even his back story was in the toilet ratings wise



hard to imagine wb thinking adding buffy characters to angel - even in guest spots would nose up the ratings - they already ran the experiment - they brought faith and willow over to angel - and got zilch for a ratings bump

[Sheridan]

A Spike show would have to be dirt cheap unless we see a big ratings bump for S5; meaning holding the Smallville audience. I find that hard to believe if they make the show seriously Spike centred How many fans of Clark Kent are going to appreciate William The Bloody?

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the person you l-love

Willow: I am

[BBOvenGuy]

Over at the C&S Main Board, someone has predicted that the outrage over Charisma Carpenter's firing could be bigger than the outrage over the death of Tara. I don't know whether or not that will be true, but it was nice to see that we've become the standard against which future fan rebellions will be measured.

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[WebWarlock]

Funny you should mention that Bob.



I have seen similar posts on other boards today as well.



Do I think the Cordy fans have as much right to be mad? Yes. Are the issue the same? Hell no.



Of course I hope the Cordy fans do rebel. Granted, it didn't help us, or the B/A shippers, or the Doyle fans much, but maybe this is the last straw. Funny, I just reliazed that I am at some level a member of every group Josas has ever pissed on. Makes you wonder why exactly I even watched this shhow...



Course if we look at it from this point of view,

Was CC fired to make room for JM?

or Was CC fired because she got pregnant?



Either is reprehensable. If it is the last one then CC should get in touch with Hunter Tylo's people, because this could become quite a bit of fun very fast. I mean DB was not fired after he became a new parent.



So much for Mr. "I studied feminist film theory in College".



So Bob. Got any Cordy essays mulling around in your head at all?

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side,
home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks

"There has to be an invisible sun. It gives its heat to everyone.

There has to be an invisible sun. That gives us hope when the whole day's done." - The Police Invisible Sun

[Kendahl897]

Hey, the more people they piss off, the better.. As for whether it would be bigger than the outrage over Tara's death, well, I 'd like to see them at least try and achieve our greatness and standard.. After all, Buffy lost over a million households this season..Good work Joss..

[xita]

I think the thing with Amber and Charisma is that there seemed to be not only a rejection of the character, but of the actors involved. We hear that back in season 2 they were going to kill of Spike but they liked James too much. And Amber and Charisma can be dismissed because well, they can't be bothered to come up with something for her to do, or because another character needed their death. It's something I think that seems ungrateful to the people that made them. I think they should be honest and say there was a problem with the actor. I think other shows do that all the time, so and so had to go because of conflicts on the set. I would appreciate that more.

[gspiggott]

I'm amazed at how JW repeats himself.We've seen this routine before, remember how exciting Buffy was going to be on UPN without all the restrictions of the WB? And just last summer remember when Fruitfly was going to get the attention of mainstream viewers who would not be caught dead watching a show called Buffy the Vampire Slayer?Original message of female empowerment while we're at it? As godawful as Whedon is at interviews he must be either a spellbinding orator or very adept at telling his audience what they want to hear , even when his intentions are otherwise.Hell ,he had W/T fans fooled for a long time.

Should the WB know better? You would think so, but tremendous success can cause a company to make mistakes.

Spike is very popular with Buffy fans, but remember last year the talk was all about trying to lure fans back after the debacle of season sux. Spike is not going to bring any viewers into the show who don't already know the character. The other pitfall is that the WB can't make a teen heartthrob out of a forty year old man no matter how good his abs. Especially a rapist and murderer .

I think the loss of Charisma will be a big problem for them, maybe not Tara sized but enough to make things awkward.Good.

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

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We hear that back in season 2 they were going to kill of Spike but they liked James too much.

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Not to mention the way the nerds keep showing up again and again and again...



Speaking of which, has anyone started a betting pool on how far into the season they'll get before Andrew appears?

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[jixer]

Hello Kittens-



Oh my, I can see it now: the Spike and Andrew show, formerly known as Angel. Would you or ?



I think the Spike spinoff should be titled- "Please watch because it's the only way ME will survive long enough to make Firefly the movie" Not a great title, but accurate IMO.





Jixer

[emma peel]

jixer, you wrote:

I think the Spike spinoff should be titled- "Please watch because it's the only way ME will survive long enough to make Firefly the movie" Not a great title, but accurate IMO.

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That is priceless!!!

Janice

[kajo 2000]

Susan Moore has posted a partial transcript at the Bloody Awful Poet Society of a new David Fury interview in the latest issue of Dreamwatch:

Quote:

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I don't know If this is old news, but I've just purchased the latest copy of a magazine called Dreamwatch and, in it, it has an interview with David Fury in which he touches on the original concept of the Faith spinoff. I thought you'd find this bit a little interesting:



''Spike and Buffy also have beautiful moments together as their relationship blossoms. It's not quite what Buffy and Angel were. It's not quite what Spike and Buffy were...It's something else. It's respectful of what's gone before. The concept was that Spike would be spun off with Faith. Her one single companion was going to be Spike. But the thing is...''



Fury pauses. It's a long and perfect and Oscar worthy. Then comes the the pay off, the big revelation and it's finally out there.'' The thing is....Spike dies. It's a great sacrifice and that's all I'll say. The spin-off would have been Faith...and the ghost of Spike. That was the premise. We knew she was going to have someone else with her and we weren't sure who it was going to be. Joss came up with that idea. So it would have been a Faith/Spike spin-off.



''There's been no other talk about Spike. The thing is,'' Fury continues. ''He's a hard character to do a spin-off around. He's a conflicted character and now he's 'a vampire with a soul' - there's a danger that we've already explored some of that territory on Angel. Although he's different, we've already explored that kind of area looking for redemption. If he isn't looking for redemption then he's just a bad guy and do we want to watch a show about that? He isn't easy to spin-off....Except as a foil or a romantic interest''.



But Fury is quick to point out that Marsters has proven to be a favorite amongst the not just the viewers but everyone at Mutant Enemy. They are fully aware of the impact the actor made on the show and how his demise will send echoes through fandom and beyond. Ask Fury if he'd work with Marsters again and he doesn't even let you finish the sentence. '' God help me...if I can find something for James to do, I'd love to!''

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So it sounds like M.E. did not originally intend to resurrect Spike, he would just have been a ghost if the Faith spin-off had gone ahead.

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"I want to be Byron... because I want to date young boys." Amber Benson

Edited by: kajo 2000 at: 5/29/03 3:25:34 pm