I have to reiterate that the suspense is killing me, but I love it! I think what I loved about this latest update was the supporting cast and Tara’s interaction with them, I find that it is through those situations that we really get a good sense about her true character. Tadre I thought was an important addition to the story because she opens a door for Tara other than being a noble woman, the mark profession gives her a level of power (independence?) that was not present beforehand. The conversation with her father and Faith both revolved around Dani and gave more insight to Tara’s feelings. The sexual aspect of their relationship revealed at the end of the update I thought was appropriate and in no way distasteful. I am taking a class on the Literature of the 17th and 18th century and what you wrote is very tame compared to some of those works. I just wanted to let you know that you are doing something really wonderful here, giving the reader a story that they can enjoy and something that is very cerebral, kudos!

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Safe upon the solid rock the ugly houses stand:
Come and see my shinning palace built upon the sand!
-'Second Fig' by Millay

Wow. Another new story from one of my favorite W/T-authors. And I'm actually getting it from the start. Sorry, for not leaving FB before but I didn't feel capable off. Thanks for giving the long update to us even if we have to wait 2 long weeks now.

I only got time to skim over the rest of the FB and your answers, but it gave me the impression the topic often went to the social difference between our favorite witches. Even being aware of that, the inequity of the system and the lack of freedom Dani seems to have, I can't blame Tara for the way she thinks. To her it's perfectly normal. It's the way she was born and so was Dani. She doesn't question that because she doesn't know which question she should ask. Very seldom in history social changes were initiated by those who belonged to a higher social rank. And she is of the highest on the estate if I got it right. Even Donnie is not that high in rank. Doesn't he only share a four mark bond? That maybe the reason Tara is the Lady of the estate now not Donnie the Lord(?).

I wonder how future life is predetermined for Tara. Will she be expected to marry and become the mother of her husbands children? And will she share the estate with her husband or become the Lady of his estate?

I loved how you decided to give Tara the gift of marking. It's seldom in your story that she does something better than Dani and that Dani is unable to do something in any way. Marking is unique Tara. Good for her. Maybe that's her ticket to escape the predetermined marriage (if it is predetermined for her) and motherhood?

Like another FBer I wonder if being gay is common in the mark-bond-world. The comment about Tara's uncle lead me to assume something along those lines. At least it doesn't seem to bother Tara's father (if our guess about Tara's uncle is right). Maybe wife and husband don't have to share love but rather have children together and carry on the lineage. Maybe it's ok if they share the love with their mark-bond servant. But I also wonder: If Tara has to marry will her husband have mark-rights over Dani? I so understand Tara's concerns for the mark-rights.

In my point of view you shouldn't worry about the issue of sex and age. Like you said yourself in medievil times it was common even being a mother at 14 or sometimes younger. Even if my opinion is that kids nowadays shouldn't start to early because it's worth the while to wait a bit longer (but that's totally another topic), I don't think it was to soon in your story. And you've written it very empathetic too. Although it gave me a lot to think about. Tara seemed to be so innocent. She even didn't know how to express what Dani was doing to her totally. That gives me the impression she never had any sex education apart from witnessing animals having sex like she described in the former chapter. Dani by contrast seemed to know very well about her doing. It makes me wonder if maybe some part of her education included sex ed in very explicit ways. But there also could be another explanation I barely dare to admit. Maybe Dani explored the physical part of love with Faith? Maybe it was expected from her and Faith to prepare Dani for being able to make Tara feel good in any possible way. Please don't be mad at me it's just my wicked sense of thinking. Anyway this scene showed to me Tara isn't more free than Dani is. We may think she is in the better position but is she really? Dani knows a lot more about life and about her than Tara knows about what will be in store for her and about Dani.

Like others I'm also wondering about the name change. Ok Anne is apparently more appropriate than Buffy (she is, isn't she?). But I wonder the reasons behind changing Willows name to Dani and if she will be Willow in the end. But we will see about that. I'm really trying to be patient.

There is only something that bothers me. If I remember it right Anne and Faith are twins. Why is Anne's rank a higher one than Faith'? Was she born first?

There are so many questions I like to ask. Knowing full well that you aren't able to answer any of them. And I'm more than willing to wait patiently for the next updates to reveal the answers. Thanks again for sharing this great story with us.

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She's not drivin stick anymore?

Another beautifully rendered chapter. Loved the detailed description of Tara's education in marks artistry. It's quite fitting since she's usually the intuitive sensitive one more inclinced towards the Arts as oppossed to Willow's logic science based academic pursuits. It's certainly proving to be an advantage in a world dominated by marks and magic.

I wonder if Tara creating her own marks could somehow influence the potency of Dani's marks? Although I sorta hope it would, I'm kind of doubting she would go against such an ingrained belief system and sabotage them for Dani's sake. Sneaking drugs for her girl? Yeah. Going against everything she was ever taught and betraying what was entrusted to her? Nope. Sadly, just can't see that happening.

But oh, what a golden opportunity!

On the appearance of the marks themselves, I was wondering if you have any images or sketch ideas of what these marks might look like? Since they play such a pivotal role in the story and in particular this chapter, I can't help but be a little curious...

At the mo I'm torn between picturing those patterns of mehndi applied in Asian marriage ceremonies and those Medieval manuscripts, where stories could be deciphered from tiny intricate symbolic illustrations interweaved through the text. Something appropriately arty, complicated and not so great to have inflicted on your skin...Speaking of which...



LOL! Love Tara's round about way of saying it still hurt like buggery.



Ah, yes. Rah rah sis boom bah. Go Anne! In defence of wee sarky Anne, I guess I attribute her to being an 'Anti-Scoobie' , a BtVS character who is a part of the gang and yet can stand back and be a bit of a non-conformer. Although this tends to make em rude and tactless, their greatest value is that they also tell the unvarnished truth and not mollycoddle the recipient like the others would do. Anya was great at that! I like the balance this brings to the dynamic of the group.

I'm glad you gave this to Anne rather than Faith. Up until then she was still like a flickering half-formed impression, but the dialogue gave her a personality with some surprising bite. And I think, in her own Anti-Scoobie way she was trying to help Dani by getting her better prepared for what was to come rather than maintain her ignorance. But then, I'm biased 'cause I like sarky characters. As for a suitor suggestion for Anne...how about Xander? Considering his girl friend track record, the irony makes me grin.

Good to know there won't be a Stepford Dani. I'm still sort of dreading what those marks will do to her though. Can't help that knee-jerk mentality that is screaming "This is WRONG!"

The sexual scene between a drugged Tara and Dani was very well done. You really captured a sense of giddy disorientation that quickly succumbed to raw unfettered pleasure. Heh. Has Dani been getting taught some extra-curicular activites of the...um, naughty variety?

I'm not bothered about the age thing. I am interested why Dani initated such a bold move though. I'm guessing it was to provide comfort and help take away the pain. Orgasms would certainly do the trick for that!:lol

However, I can't help feeling that Dani has an alternative motive. This must be quite an upsetting ordeal for her, not only to see Tara in pain, but for what it all ultimately means. Despite the dutiful peer pressure, I think when all is said and done Dani knows her life is going to be changed whether she likes it or not, and now that Tara has her marks, that leaves very little time left before she is bonded. So with that in mind, perhaps as well as providing comfort, Dani also wanted to experience love in a way without the shadow of the marks hanging over their intimacy while she still could. At least, that's how I'm interpretating it. It'll be interesting to see what Tara will make of her motivations.

Fantastic well written, grey matter churning stuff, JustSkipIt! As always, can't wait to read more!

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A doodle. I do doodle. You, too. You do doodle, too.

Hello again! First, thank you for the compliments. It's good to know I ocasionally make sense . I am not so new, but mostly quiet. Also, I don't think I've left feedback for any story you've written before, although I have read them . Shyness is a curse.

This update was longer, then? I must say it didn't feel like it. Must be relativity striking again... I enjoy them so much, I really don't notice their lenght.

Tara becoming a marks-artist is a really nice touch, and it opens many possibilities, especially if she gets to do Dani's. She could alter the anchors bonding servant and mistress, or she could sneak in the 'freed-servant bond'. The problem could be Tadre noticing. However, I don't know if Tara would even think of doing such a thing, such a violation of the rules, at least at this point. Still, a very nice development I hadn't seen coming.

It's also nice to get to see more of what's going on inside Dani, even if it's still through Tara's eyes. Maybe her sadness for Tara's marking has to do with knowing she'll become 'elegible' and could soon be married. This reminds me of another issue, the way in which Tara and Dani's relationship compare to other bonded pairs. We already know that it's not usual for a noble to have their mark-bound servants from birth, as Tara did. However, maybe they develop a bond deeper than usual in even those rare cases. I think this is another issue that comes gradually to Tara's attention.

Someone mentioned this society not having a problem with gay relationships, judging by Lord Maclay's words of Tara's uncle, but she does say he was always 'liberal in his thinking'. Still, I doubt they would easily accept a relationship between a mark-bonded pair that went beyond the boundaries they have set for it.

About the last scene:
I understand your concerns, but I'm glad you haven't let them stop you from writing the scene. In my opinion, you did the right thing by staying true to the development of the story as you see it, but adding the notes afterwards. But, I'm not a writer, critic or specialist so I guess wouldn't really know.

I don't know if this makes sense, but... although I wasn't expecting it, it wasn't surprising. To me, it seems it could've been part of her training, a part to which Tara wouldn't be privy. A way to lessen her Mistress's pain after taking her marks, if herbs weren't enough. Maybe it's what they are expected to do, a method of caring for their master/mistress. And it would explain, if Tara's screams really were loud enough for anyone to hear, why no-one came running to see what was wrong. On the other hadn, it could've just been spontaneous on Dani's part, a way of helping Tara and showing her appreaciation for saving some opioum for Dani's own marking.

Oops. Wrote too much! I hope you don't mind it's so long. One more thing, though... is Donnie's servant, D'le, Doyle from Angel? I always liked him, so that would be nice. As soon as you said his name, I pictured him ridding with Donnie.

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Ich bin für Liebe, ich bin für die die's lieben zu leben; ich bin für die, die Liebe geben auch wenns schwer ist im Leben. - Curse, "Widerstand"

I am posting this for a reader who is too shy to post in the thread but has PMed me. I wish I could find her previous note as it also had some really great observations.

from PM:
Thanks for the reply I haven't stopped grin for the last five minutes!
(think I've got the hang of these now!). This is the first time I've sent some 'feedback' and didn't know what to send or quite what to expect, but I guess I shouldn't have worried huh! blush Did I say I love these things! Do you think someone could set up a blushing sheep?

Not sure I'm up for posting yet, takes me a while to dredge up the courage and I haven't even seen a chat room yet - next on the to do list perhaps.
If you want to mention my comments though feel free (hides behind you!)

I've just read the last chapter and got to say another great piece of writing. I don' know why but I love your style, I find it brings with it such clarity that I can picture each scene perfectly.
I've also read some of the comments over here and i must say I'm glad to know I'm not the only one with weird ideas!!!

The discovery of Tara's talent for artistry gives her a greater understanding of the bonds and possibly an opportunity to manipulate them, but I'm not sure it will bring any great comfort to her in the long run when she comes to see what they are. I love that she tries to keep some of the herbs for Dani, but I'm wondering if Dani will actually take them or want to show her devotion to Tara.

I loved the scene with Tara and her father, but it's kind of sad that even when they're alone they still have to follow the rules and they only slip every now and again when it's really needed. About the marks-rights, you've got me worried now that someone will show up and be able to claim them. Or as someone wrote what happens if/when Tara marries? OK I'm officially fretting now!

What I don't understand is why T'dre seemed so interested in Willow. OK they are to be bound and she probably wants a good match for Tara but you give the impression that it was more than that.

..and finally the last scene which I think you handled very well. As many have pointed they would both have been married off at a very early age due to limited life expectancy. I'm a bit puzzled why Dani would choose to make the first move though and as Tara says


Has she been having extra lessons? What on earth has D'elam been telling her!

Thanks again for the update, I really don't know where you find the time to work out the intricate details of the plot, let alone write it. If it was me I'd be having a panic attack about the language and plot, and after I'd amended it for the tenth time it might actually be ready!
Am I right in thinking you have a little boy as well? even more amazing unless of course you don't sleep at all!

Speaking of which yawn nighty, night, hope the finger gets better soon.

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Menorah Tales | Working It Out | Random Bits

awh dont be shy!! we're all real nice!

come out and play

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let me live forever.. in the space between our lips...

Yeah, what Belli said! i promise i won't bite....unless you want me to

just kidding!

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Vale
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"When you get excited about something, one might imagine you as a small, maniacally grinning rubber ball, which someone throws at the wall in an enclosed room, and goes bouncing off every surface for about 15 minutes." - Mudrat

I am beginning to see a dynamic of loving and nurturing evolve as Tara nd Dani get older... and am very *very* glad to see that the evolution of their sexuallity "became" before Dani took her marks... I wouldn't want an that kind of obligation to exist for them. I found it touching that Tara was so concerned for Dani's pain that she devised a plan that not only would help Dani but also involved a level of self sacrifice. It is clear that Tara loves Dani - but this story is all from her perspective so I am left wondering how Dani feels. This last update clearly shows that Dani feels some measure of sexual feelings for Tara in that, well, they had sex, or at least Dani made love to Tara. I found the descriptions of that to be appropriately loving and gentle (you did an excellent job of reflecting Tara's intoxicated state). I appreciate your concern regarding their age -- but the truth is that it didn't bother me -- at 17 sexual feelings happen for all of us. It doesn't seem underage or expoitative to me in that way. It is only the power dynamic that I find uncomfortable -- and that seems to be at the core of the story, and part of what I am supposed to be contemplating; in fact part of what *they* are beginning to contemplate.

What I would like to understand more is why it happened then? Is it that Dani (Willow) always felt those sexual feelings but felt it was innapropriate to act upon given her station? Is it that she always felt a measure of obligation because Tara was so physically effusive regarding snuggling and such? Or is it that Tara, in saving the opium for Dani's marks and making that sacrifice for Dani, finally shows Dani what she needs to see... That Tara sees her as more than just 'her' girl?. Ah to see inside Dani's thoughts...

I went back and read the first chapter -- noted that Tara had a "new" girl (who was somewhat annoying) in the present of this story -- so it is clear to me that at some point the emplyer/employee relationship is dissolved.

I am really enjoying this story as it evolves. I like a story line with ethical and moral dillemas to hurdle. I like your writing and the way you tweak your words just-so to change the meanings of things, to purposfully allow for ambiguity -- I feel like it leaves me thinking, and I appreciate that.

As ever, I look forward to reading more.

db

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I am, you know.

Wow... lotsa feedback already.. this story really evokes response doesn't it ?

For all the power-balancing going towards Tara most of this story, at the end of this chapter Dani clearly is in control (mistress/slave just doesn't apply when the mistress is drugged;-). That does have some advantages, for starters we get to see how she cares for Tara. I don't mind the drugged state very much (as much as we/Tara know what Dani does is done because she loves Tara and possibly wants to relieve her pain) , though it does provide 'plausable denial' of the entire scene if Tara (or Dani) would choose to rather forget or ignore it. It's rather confusing to both of them.

It's nice that Tara saves some painkillers for Dani. However the healer could easily supply those if Tara asked. The question in my mind is does Dani want to take painkillers or would she view that as being not dedicated enough? (unless Tara is cunning enough to phrase it such that Dani takes them for Tara's wellbeing, not sure this Tara is that wise though)

Tara being able to create her own marks is a nice touch. Not entirely sure she'll do anything with it in regards to Dani's initial marks though. Don't forget that both Tara and Dani have been raised/indoctrinated from birth that whatever happens is how it's supposed to happen. As such it wouldn't help to give Dani a free choice, simply because she doesn't know or understand any different option but serving Tara.

Tara calling her father Lord MaClay even in private sounds just plain silly. It's not need for respect or such, so what's the point besides silly outside rules? He does understand and read his daughter quite well, good dad Still it's all a bit to formal for me, having been raised a lot less formal and all. I think lack of (informed) choice bugs me most of both Dani and Tara's situation.

Does Dani want anything for herself besides pleasing Tara? Or was that option removed from her thought-patterns from birth by the way she was raised??

It's interesting to see that virtually everybody here condemns the marks as a sign of 'ownership' yet the rings we tend to use for our weddings have lots of the same symbolism. I'll grant you that in Dani & Tara's world it's more direct, but that has it's charm too (it's more honest for a start;-)

Grimmy

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"You hurt Tara," Willow said too calmly. "The last one who tried that was a god. I made her regret it."
-- Unexpected Consequences by Lisa of Nine

I understand your concern but this story is moving just as it should and i am frozen in place waiting for more. As always wonderful

Deb
I love your stories, and this one is no exception. With each update the world Tara is telling us about gets richer in detail and more colourful. It's like watching an ancient tapestry come to life. And indeed this world seems as foreign as the scenes in those tapestries. The concept of the bound servants, the social hierarchy based on magical and familial status, and the practise of 'marking': painful tattoos proclaiming identity, status, and worth.

More characters are becoming substantial now too. At first, it was just Tara, and as her story progresses the others have stepped out of the shadows and become solid.

I like this. We started in the dark with Tara, and no doubt will return there since that is 'now', and we're making the journey with her through her memories. The colour, clarity and movement in them make a stark contrast with the gloom enveloping her. I keep wondering what terrible thing happened that brought that about.

In this last update we see Tara and Dani on the verge of adulthood. Tara finally accepts her birthright to show her confidence in Dani. Her artistic and magical talent for 'marking' is developed and T'dra becomes a mentor. It seems to me that it is T'dra's job and talent to understand the bonds between those she binds with the marks, and Tara's love for Dani isn't going to escape her: I think she understands it as more than the love of mistress and bondswoman, and I'm wondering if she can / will magic something extra into the marks she gives Tara and Dani, and if it will protect Dani from other would be lovers.

You were concerned with the under-age sex scene. While there may be legal issues, in the context of your story I didn't see it as exploitative. It seemed to me that Willow was more concerned with giving comfort to Tara than taking advantage of her drugged state. What amazes me is that they've lasted this long without at least making some tentative sexual explorations, given their love and their physical closeness. And how is it that Willow has such knowledge (although instinct can be a wonderful guide) and Tara is so untouched by sexuality??? I too am glad this came before Dani has her marks: it is thus freely given. However for this to be a union of equals, Tara has to declare herself and be accepted while Dani is still capable of free will, so that they both know their love is not a product of magic or binding. (I'm guessing this doesn't happen, hence the gloom'n'doom', but somehow - this is the Kitten Board after all - W&T work it out )

I won't apologise for using colloquial language (the pulling up of socks) in my last fb: I like to read the different slang from different parts of the world, I think it gives little insights of the people. Although that was a rather old fashioned saying, you interpreted correctly.

Looking forward to more.
thanks
Anne

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Spells for Two

Every path has its puddle. Old English Saying... I think I just stepped in mine...

oh, please keep updating - i am hooked to this story

I don't usually post a fb to a story fearing that I wouldn't make sense, since I'm not good about constructive criticism and everything. But, while reading the last chapter, I got all these questions in my mind and just thought of, "okay, why not post and ask Debra?"

First I just wanna say, this is a brilliant story. Creating "this world" and letting your readers get hook into it is just purely genius. I must admit that I always prefer reading AUs and thinks it's more challenging. But this story had me wondering and the more chapters you add, the more interested I got.

With regards to the sex scene I don't see anything wrong with it since I don't find it lascivious, and there’s no way (as what I understood) that Dani/Willow took advantage of Tara’s weak state. Please excuse me for these silly questions. But it had me wondering if Dani/Willow did that out of love for Tara, as a person that she loves? Or she did it out of obligation for Tara, as her mistress? Coz it seems like Dani/Willow have been getting more lessons about “life”, and I just thought, is that part of her lessons too? To make her mistress feel better that way if Tara would be in that kind of pain?

The more they grow up the more Dani/Willow realizes that she is obligated to care and love for her mistress. I mean, does Dani/Willow ever determines if she really loves Tara as a person? And that she loves Tara in her own free will and not because she had been taught to love Tara that way? It’s good to see that Dani/Willow cares and loves Tara, her mistress. But it’s kinda frustrating, coz we don’t know if it’s a natural kind of love or plainly an obligated love? I know that I shouldn’t question that, coz hello, Willow loves Tara and Tara loves Willow story here. But there could always be a possibility that Dani/Willow (might) hadn’t realize yet that she’s in love with Tara, and this mistress/servant relationship could bring some frustrations and perhaps suppress Dani/Willow from falling in love with Tara? Coz let’s admit it, we don’t know what they’ve been teaching Willow. What they’ve been feeding in her mind? They could have told her that Tara could love, care, and want her anytime, but she (Dani/Willow) on the otherhand, could never ever want or expect anything from Tara. It’s like a one sided affection, that Dani/Willow’s taught to expect, and that she couldn’t do anything about how she feels coz she’s just a servant.

And poor Tara, her knowledge about “real life” is limited, that she thinks nothing but her love for her Dani, and how she wants her (although I find it thoughtful of her to save some herbs for Dani/Willow). It’s still sad that she had been brought up and taught that everything around her is good, nice, and right. I wonder if Tara ever thinks about how Dani/Willow really feels about her? Unless I missed something here, so please feel free to correct me.

Great story by the way! Thanks for sharing it.

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“I’m gonna marry you someday! Yoooou’ll see!” 8 year old Willow to 17 year old Tara.-Written In The Stars

"I think you are such a sweetheart even though you got that twisted mind that is almost sadistic." - A friend, after reading REAL LOVE

So I was reaching for a plastic fork at the cafeteria and hit my hand on the counter facing. Hard. Hard enough that I and four other people heard it either break or pop. I spent about 3 days not having a split and then 3 days kind of putting the splint on and off and now finally have one on full time. Do you know how hard it is to type with your right index finger in a splint? Not to mention tying shoes, changing a diaper, cutting my food. My point: my writing will definitely be slower for a while. I’m working on replying to the fantastic feedback (and I am thrilled with all the feedback) but it is taking a long time.


More importantly I apologize to the non-American Kittens for this OT message…

If you are 18, American, and registered, please Go Vote on Tuesday. This election is extremely important! To keep this on topic, if I wake up on Wednesday and the election has gone the way I wanted it to go, I will post a short update on Wednesday. If not, I will post it later in the week or the next Tuesday.

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Menorah Tales | Working It Out | Random Bits

tee hee, you're cute

i'm sorry you hurt yourself. s'ok if updates will be slow, there's certainly a good reason for it. i hope your hand gets better soon (and the cracking sound? that made me shudder....)



PS: i had dibs!

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Vale
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"When you get excited about something, one might imagine you as a small, maniacally grinning rubber ball, which someone throws at the wall in an enclosed room, and goes bouncing off every surface for about 15 minutes." - Mudrat

Hi,
Sorry to hear about your finger. That can hurt like hell, and it seems like you're forever knocking it on something. Hope it gets better soon.

The elections you refer to haven't featured much in the news here, except for a discussion on the radio on Hilary Clinton which may have been related - I was driving and didn't catch it all. This is a good example of how forums like the KB raise our awareness of the world - I was curious enough to google to find out which elections you were referring to.

So, I'm not being completely selfish ('cos I really look forward to your updates) when I say I hope the elections go the way you want.

Anne

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Spells for Two

Every path has its puddle. Old English Saying... I think I just stepped in mine...

I am so sorry you are hurt Deb I hope you feel better soon if I could send it through the web i would bake you a cake to make you better

Yipe! Sorry to hear about your finger, JustSkipIt...that sounds really sore! Don't worry about the updates, splints are annoying wee buggers. Just hope you're getting lots of TLC and your finger gets better soon!

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A doodle. I do doodle. You, too. You do doodle, too.

Sorry to read about your hand. Have you tried ice as well as the splint? Good luck.

Sorry to have been a tease about the update. I will be out of town for a family funeral followed by a work conference and then visit to the in-laws before I even return to town. This story is still my #1 writing priority but I don't know when I'll be near the internet for a week and a half or so...

Sorry.

But I will post the replies that I have written. Still working on the rest...

SallyMcFine – So I didn’t know you have updated your dibs until I read a comment later down that referred to something you said. And here we are…

I’m glad to hear what you have to say about the pacing. I’ve had times when I wondered if it was too quick. I mean this latest update basically covered about 5 years. Anyway, I’m glad to hear that it’s working.

I’m glad to hear that people are lightening up on Tara. Yes, her delaying her marks was 100% about not wanting Dani to be hurt (either by the marks themselves or the marks-rights). I will say though, that I’m not sure that Tara is ready on a conscious level to really investigate why Willow not sharing (being shared) marks-rights is so important to her.
Interesting that quite a few readers have this idea. No. Tara will definitely not do Dani’s marks. Tara has only today gotten the cred to do 3rd marks. It will be years and years (and some artists never reach the point) of being able to do 5th level marks. Also, no artist can ever do her own servant’s marks for reasons that I think will become more obvious when you read that update. Still, interesting guess about placing an imperfection intentionally in the design. I won’t say but interesting thought.

I think that Dani couldn’t tell Tara how she was feeling. Their relationship has a level of formality and border that Dani and Faith’s relationship does not have. And it’s not particularly surprising that Tara didn’t pick up on Dani’s feelings; Dani’s job entails keeping her feelings (if they are anything unpleasant) from her mistress (future mistress).

I’m very glad to read ringing endorsements for the sex scene in spite of my reservations. Yes, power imbalance is a definite problem and as you point out, that’s why I had Dani initiate rather than Tara taking advantage of a wasted Dani.

Thanks so much.

Darth Pacula – Funny. Just the other day I was wondering why you weren’t reading. I’m glad to hear that you are even if you aren’t doing so much feedback. I think we all go through that.

Yes, that’s true. Thank you. I’m glad that the naming conventions are working for you.

Lol: your procrastination allowing me to answer your questions. I’m glad that the master/servant dynamic works as a conflict outline. We’ll see what trouble happens regarding Dani’s magic.
Excellent point.

I totally agree that the marks are quite disturbing and it’s definitely a reference to the Lethe’s Bramble debacle. Yes, in essence and every other way, the ,mark-bonded servants are possessions. Well put.
Sorry for the red herring. Not important.

Agreed but…

Re: sexual ethics. Yes, her being a servant is definitely the big problem in my mind. I totally agree with you in the age thing but as I said, I questioned it nonetheless.

Good. I said in my response to Kathryn in that thread that I was going to show the scene but actually hoped that would make it somehow more innocent or reasonable.

Thanks so much.

Belli Bear – Ok. My wife looked over at my computer screen last night (one of her habits) and wants to know what your avatar is…

Thanks so much. Tee hee: chocolate frog. Thanks for your kind words on the characterization.

Krokador – Thanks so much for reading and feedbacking.
Thank you so much.

You are right that I’m not about to explain the whys and wheretofores of the Dani/Willow name. Thanks.

highlandlass25 – Interesting that you see Dani’s action as a gift because Tara is drugged and because Dani does not have her marks yet. Well. That would be helpful wouldn’t it?

I doubt that you missed it as I don’t think I’ve explicitly explained it. I’ll try to do so clearly but succinctly. This society believes in famial passing down of title but to both sons and daughters. A Lord will be the first son of the Lord of the Estate and will attain that level when the Lord (his father) passes or when he takes his marks should his father pass before then. This applied to Tara’s father and will apply to Donnie when their father passes. Likewise, the first daughter of the Lady of the Estate will become the Lady when that Lady passes or upon her mark-taking if her mother does not live that long. If there is no Lady (no eligible daughter), the Lord’s wife will become Lady when they are married or when the Lady passes. A Lady can (and must) abdicate her position of Lady of her family estate when she marries a Lord of another estate (as Tara’s aunt T’solde did). This is how Tara’s mother was able to become Lady Maclay (Tara’s grandmother was dead and T’solde had abdicated her title). The 2nd wife CAN NOT be Lady of the estate nor can 2nd daughter, etc. Should Tara marry and abdicate her title (fat chance there huh?) Donnie’s wife would become Lady. Otherwise she will remain 4th mark wife of the Lord (like Melanie). A man CAN NOT marry the Lady and become Lord. Ever. But his son (more Importantly the Lady’s son) can be the Lord when he attains his marks.

Clear as mud?

Thank you. He will be 3 in January.

Thanks.

Vale – Thank you. So that’s a vote for love and declaration of the same. Gottit.
Wow. Thank you.

Oh yes, Tara absolutely wants to spare her girl pain. She loves her very very much. I’m glad you liked the interaction with her father. Some people thought it was sadly formal. I have not explicitly stated that women can or can not take marks-rights but I will say that it’s not discussed whether they can. Officially, any man with equal or greater marks can take rights. Tara has tremendous power over her own servant but I will not say if that applies to marks rights.

I’ll leave you guessing on that one but that was not necessarily the thought I had in mind although I think it’s a reasonable interpretation. I will say that homosexuality is not expected or discussed in this society.

I’m glad that you liked Faith. I will say again that I love Faith as a ripe character. Again, I’m glad that you approved of the sex scene.

I think you’ve hit on my exact questions regarding the sexual ethics. I agree with you regarding the power imbalance here but I think it is huge in the story. You know?

Thanks.

Second Fig – Thanks. I’m glad the suspense has you hooked. Mmm. Interesting note about Tara’s interactions with the supporting players, as it were. I think that you are right about Tara’s potential independence and it is also a big point of prestige. It’s a little like being a super magic user or a parseltongue (in rarity, not in being evil and from Slytherin). Thanks for the thoughts about the end of the chapter. I’m glad it seemed tame enough.

sacinema – Not quite the start but reasonably close. You are right that Tara is completely conditioned to accept the status quo. Great point although I would again point to the Buddha as an exception.

Correct. Tara outranks Donnie until he becomes Lord and technically even then because of her magic.

Excellent question. Some of that will figure in future updates and I don’t want to ruin it. But I will answer this as in my earlier response. If Tara marries a Lord of another estate, she would become Lady of that Estate and Donnie’s wife would eventually become Lady of the Maclay estate. I’m glad you appreciate her marking gift.

Regarding the how common being gay is I will just say this: Tara doesn’t realize that gay is even a thing. She had no clue if loving Dani is common or unusual or if they are entirely alone or what.

Any man with 5 marks has mark-rights over Dani—her husband or anyone.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the sex scene. Absolutely. She had no frame of reference.


You are one of a few people who wondered about this either with Dani and Faith or that D’elam trained Dani. I will say this: keep in mind the source and what is her level of reliability? 1. She is thoroughly stoned. 2. She is thoroughly in love with Dani. 3. She has nothing to compare her experience to.
Excellent observation.

The name…

Yes. Back when Tara’s father is going to give the girls the horses, referring to Faith,

You are very welcome.

Uzu – Thank you. I’m glad you liked Tara’s artistry education.
Let me be clear. T’dre allowed Tara to work on her marks as a complex exercise in artistry. But T’dre had absolute power over the marks. She has Tara work on them for years to force her to continue to learn from such an elaborate exercise.

I wish I could show them to you. They are in my head but I have no gift for transfering them anywhere else.

Sounds very close.

That’s a different take but a very good one. Perhaps Anne was trying to break it to Dani while she was surrounded by her (not so much) peers.

Ahh, Good suggestion but Xander will be making an appearance quite a few updates down the road and not as a suitor. Sorry.
Can I put that on the book jacket? Tee hee? I want to quote your entire long paragraph but I will refrain. Excellent points about Dani’s possible motivation.

Thank you.

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Menorah Tales | Working It Out | Random Bits

Busted finger, funeral and a work conference? Yipes. I hope you get some good stuff your way soon, Debra.

It's been way too long since I left you feedback...if I ever have for this one. There's something very unsettling about this fic (and I mean that in the best way); I don't know what it is, but I keep expecting really bad things to happen, and that nothing has yet just keeps notching up the tension. If that's your intention...well done! If not...well done!

The whole 'mark rights' thing is very unnerving. I'm glad Tara discussed it with her dad, but I noticed he only gave his assurances about himself and his brother. That, combined with the earlier teasing of Donnie, makes me very nervous that Donnie is going to try and assert mark rights over Dani at some point. If so, might I suggest an ass-kicking crossover with Chris' Princess Tara and the Dragon? That could also explain the use of the name Dani...it's to protect Willow's secret dragony identity! No? Oh poop.

Take care, write when you can, and cross your fingers for good election results.
-Cam

ETA: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I shake off any post-update attack of nerves by thinking of you as D'bra now...which sounds supiciously like Da Bears...Da Bra...and then I bust out in hysterical giggles. I make my own fun.

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Cam....you definitely make my fun too!

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Vale
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"When you get excited about something, one might imagine you as a small, maniacally grinning rubber ball, which someone throws at the wall in an enclosed room, and goes bouncing off every surface for about 15 minutes." - Mudrat

Sorry to hear about your unfortunate little accident. Did you get your finger x-rayed? Do you know how long you'll have to endure the pesky (but usefull) splint??

We'll forgive you a later update on the 'finger-incident' (hmm.. that sounds MUCH more R-rated that I intended, honest ) , but with Real Life intruding so much you'll be excused for a while.

I did follow and understand your explanation of what happens when Tara marries into another estate... yeah me. Now what would happen if Tara never marries, she'll stay Lady of the estate I guess? (originally I wanted to ask what happens if she marries Dani but I wonder if that's even invented in their world?)

Interesting that two plot 'points' (gay acceptable, Tara doing Dani's marks) were seen by readers (incl. me) but not by you That's the fun in posting to a forum as opposed to publishing a book, direct feedback I honestly can't imagine how otherwise to interpret Lord MaClay's comment about 'has other interests' though, we'll have to see where the story leads us (don't have to explain every little detail here ;- )

Have either Tara or Dani ever spoken to people outside the MaClay familly (and servants). I mean, do they know there is world outside there which I imagine might be quite different.. given how Sheila came in begging for food in part 1...

Is it just me or did the previous update attract a LOT of LONG feedback ?? Seems that way, which is a Good Thing.. unless typing hurts your finger, don't want that.

grimmy

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"You hurt Tara," Willow said too calmly. "The last one who tried that was a god. I made her regret it."
-- Unexpected Consequences by Lisa of Nine

No Grimmy, i noticed that too. ain't it awsome?

and.....i should really stop commenting after every other feedback sowwie

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Vale
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"When you get excited about something, one might imagine you as a small, maniacally grinning rubber ball, which someone throws at the wall in an enclosed room, and goes bouncing off every surface for about 15 minutes." - Mudrat

First, yes Vale needs to find a life so she doesn't respond to the posts, and in other people's threads too! Of course now she's gonna want to reply to this and I'm seriously tempting her aren't I?

Debra - hope that between your injured hand, being out of town and Thanksgiving you have a chance to catch your breath and rest. I definitely agree that you will want to fall and kiss the ground when you get home, or you'll be so exhausted you collapse on the ground and your lips just happen to touch the floor. I'm kind of all nano'ed out, with my own busted wrist to contend with, and Survivor starts in a while ... which sucks cos I may not be able to write feedback as long as I'd like (*shrug* I dunno, I've barely started this post and I haven't even gotten to the story yet).

I was surprised, and then relieved, that Tara had the ability to create marks. Relieved because it seemed to give her the control over this marking business that she had been so passive about.

Could it also be tied with being a powerful magic user too? I suspect that Tara is going to have great powers in some areas of magic, but right now I don't have much substantiating evidence, just a feeling. Perhaps somehow hers and Dani's powers combine? It'll be interesting to see future developments.

Though I can understand why she wants to delay taking her marks because she didn't want Dani hurt, isn't she just delaying the inevitable? Sooner or later, they will have to take their marks. It's in line with Tara's personality here though, that she has a world of good intentions, and great ones when it comes to Dani, but there is a part of her (the privileged upbringing?) that isn't seeing the big picture. I guess she hasn't discussed with Dani? Which led to Dani thinking that she's not worthy.

I'm more used to their lady/servant situation now, but I'm still not entirely comfortable with it. I do think that Dani's actions stemmed from of her own feelings (love / concern / needing to give comfort) and not some sense of duty of what a marked servant should be doing. I don't have an issue with their ages either, it's a different society, and it was mutual ... though I think Tara only realized what was happening when it became too late. I wonder whether there will be any consequence to it. I mean, will their marks be different? Will they be found out? How will they themselves feel when they wake up? I believe myself that there are subtle changes the first time a person has sex -- physically and mentally -- and if those changes will be of any significance in the immediately future. And, will Tara want to reciprocate, and how will that affect their relationship? Dani won't resist her, of course, but if she did it out of duty it will hurt Tara. Lots to think about.

And this was simply beautiful:

Sigh. You're so good.
[br]

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quiet thoughts

Geez watty, thanks so much!

and, and....i did it again, didn't i? *backs quietly to the door and runs to hide*

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Vale
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"When you get excited about something, one might imagine you as a small, maniacally grinning rubber ball, which someone throws at the wall in an enclosed room, and goes bouncing off every surface for about 15 minutes." - Mudrat

TinyAnt – Well, I’m glad to have you feedbacking now. Didn’t seem longer? Well, my association with Watty has me regularly counting words and it was longer by about 50% than the usual.

Not possible for a few reasons. 1. Tara won’t be qualified to do a 5th level mark for many years if ever 2. No one can do their own or their own servant’s mark. 3. Tadre would absolutely notice. Still, I’m glad for the approval Tara’s training has gotten from the readers.

Yes, we are seeing more of Dani’s feelings but there is still a lot to guess about. If you think about it, that’s kind of how life is for all of us. I think that W/T’s bond is deeper than most people’s no matter what their bonding or relationship is.

Again I will say I’m not sure that assumption is correct.

Interesting…

This makes a funny image in my head of the family sitting around eating dinner as Tara screams kind of stopping the spoon on the way to their mouths and then continuing. Ha ha.

I don’t think there could be such a thing. I don’t know any writers who dislike long feedback. Bring it on!

I don’t really like or follow Angel so I don’t know who Doyle is. I was thinking that D’le = Dale (an original character).

Thanks.

Anonomous – Thanks for letting me post your comments. Like I said earlier, you have some really fantastic observations. Thank you for your thoughts on the clarity of my writing. For me, that is great praise.
Ha ha. Mmm. Great question.

Any man with equal or greater marks (in Tara’s case that’s 5th marks) can “take” rights with Dani.
I do think it’s more than that. I think that it’s possible to learn an incredible amount from someone by understanding what and who they love. By asking Tara to describe Dani, Tadre could understand who Tara was better. Like if your brother comes home and says he met a wonderful woman and you ask what she’s like and he says she has fantastic and huge boozankas and can burp the Pledge of Allegiance you know a little about her but a lot about him now.

I’m intrigued that so many wonder about D’elam’s training of Dani.

Tee hee. I sleep but not so much. I guess I’m just very efficient. And yes I have a son who is nearly 3 years old. That’s him in the elephant.

Thanks

Cheerleaders: Belli Bear and Vale – Right on.

db – Hey there. I was in your neighborhood this week: Buffalo for a funeral. The trees were in terrible shape. Very sad to see.

Good.

Yes, Tara’s plan both involved lessening Dani’s pain and increasing her own. She was trying to be generous. You are right to wonder how Dani feels. Thank you on both counts. I wanted her to appear intoxicated but not completely impaired. You know? Yes, the power dynamic is the main issue.

Interestingly a reader PMed me recently suggesting that after I complete this story, I write the exact same story from Dani’s POV which I think would be a very interesting exercise. I don’t know that I’m interested in doing it but I have considered a sequel which I might write from Dani’s pov and a prequel. All quite intriguing.

Nice observation regarding Tara’s (annoying) new girl. Thanks so much for your kind comments.

grimlock72 – I am overwhelmingly thrilled with the feedback to this story. Really. Thrilled.
I think that’s true but I also think that’s it not just about Tara being drugged. I think that there are some times that power is a result of being able to give it and take it. Does that make sense? Your observation of plausible denial is a fantastic one.

I believe you are the second reader to ask some version of this question and it is a very very good one. Your suggestion about Tara manipulating Dani to take them for her is a very good one. We’ll see how that works… tee hee.

Good doubt. I can tell you she will do nothing with her talent in regard to Dani’s marks.

I agree with you about the formality between father and daughter seeming strange but it wasn’t that long ago that even non-royalty had great formality in their homes. Heck, have you seen Mary Poppins? The father expects to pat the kids to on the head and send them to bed at 6:02 or something twisted like that.

You ask some good questions about Dani’s wants (or lack thereof). 100% agreed and you’ll see more on that later….

Thanks always.

Dianneswillowtree – Thanks so much.

Anne – Thank you. I love the way you describe the tapestries and the supporting characters stepping out of the shadows. I actually think that if I had known how this story would really take over my consciousness, I would have wound even more detailed and intricate descriptions into the first few updates. You are right that the story will return to Tara in the dark. I think that in all but this update (where I did not feel it fit in), I have attempted to return the story to the darkness at least once. Thank you, thank you, thank you. That’s a great description of what I am trying to do. I am glad that your curiosity remains; if it didn’t I would know I had written too long (or too quickly I guess).

Excellent summary of Tadre’s responsibility. Nice thoughts on T’dre changing Dani’s marks but sorry to say it’s not so: T’dre would not pervert her artistry for any reason. She is true to her calling as she knows Tara will be.

I’m glad that you approve of the sex scene. I think your take on Willow’s motivation is very accurate. [qu]teAnd how is it that Willow has such knowledge (although instinct can be a wonderful guide) and Tara is so untouched by sexuality???[/quote]I think she’s guided by her instrict and aided by the fact that Tara is drugged and has no frame of reference. I mean, Dani may be a terrible shag but since she’s the only shag Tara has ever had, Tara doesn’t know any better. You know? Ok, I’m teasing just a bit there but not a bit too.

Your thoughts about the timing are great and right on the mark (no pun intended). I’m totally with you on liking to read colloquialisms. I had just never heard of that one. Thanks.

shane – Thanks.

ambercissism – Welcome to posting Fb. You’re quite a talented writer and I have no doubt about your fb being good. Bring on the questions. Thanks for your compliments on this world.

You ask great questions about Dani’s motivations for the sex scene and I will only say that from Tara’s pov, that is all in question.
Excellent question.
That is a very likely scenario I would say. I think it’s very likely that Dani has simply been taught that Tara truly loving her is not possible. That perhaps Tara loves her like she loves her favorite fountain pen or a very good and affectionate hunting dog but not as an equal for how could she? Dani is not her equal in their life.

Gee, good thoughts. I wonder what will happen when she starts to wonder that…

Thanks.

Me – OT: Elections! Happy dance.

Vale – Thanks. I still have the split on and most of the time it feels better but it still hurts and is frustrating.

Anne – Exactly! I keep hitting it on stuff or Asher grabs it or whatever. Thanks.

Dianneswillowtree – Thanks.

Uzu – Thanks.

MochaVamp – I think the ice is only good in the first 48 hours or so? I did some ice right off but it actually isn’t so swollen. Still, I’m pretty sure it’s broken. Thanks.

tarawhipped – Hi, Cam!

Thanks. You know what? I’m tired and at the in-laws’ but I’m actually feeling pretty happy these days. Life with the family is good and getting better, writing is good, work is good, etc. The rest is just speedbumps. You know?

I don’t think you have left fb before for this one. So again, welcome and thanks. I’m glad you’re unsettled by this. You should be both by the opening scene and by the entire reality of the marks and what they mean.

Nice observation. Donnie can not take mark-rights on Dani at this point. Whether he would if he could I will not say. He certainly will not until he has married and fathered a magic-using girl child. Also, Lord M’rtin is not Tara’s father’s brother but his brother-in-law. Still, it is troubling.

Thanks. I have to say that with the exception of our state elections which were predictably crap, I couldn’t have imagined them coming out any better. You know?

Ha ha. I’m D’bra!

Vale – Me too.

grimlock72 – Thanks. I didn’t get it x-rayed. I was going to see the dr but she was out of town and then my grandfather died and I got busy going out of town and now I’m still out of town. I hope a few weeks will do it. You know?

Yes. She will always be Lady and have five marks.

Oh, I’m not saying that they didn’t occur to me; just that it’s not my plan or interpretation.

I think both Tara and Dani have had very limited contact with anyone outside the family. Dani has had more contact although Tara is starting to have wider contact with the nobility due to her accompanying Tadre on markings and doing some on her own in the near future

It did and I’m totally thrilled in spite of my finger! Thank you to everyone.

Vale – Comment away!

watty You finished NaMo already? That’s insane and awesome!


I say let her respond away; it raises her post count and the count on this story.

Thanks for your thoughts. Wrist? What’s wrong with your wrist and Survivor starts? What did I miss?

I think there’s a valid syllogism there: All marks artists are powerful magic users but not all powerful magic users are necessarily marks artists. I believe that the ability usually runs in families but not always like a photographic memory or being a parseltongue.

Yes, she is certainly delaying the inevitable but I think it’s a reasonable wish. She certainly isn’t seeing any big picture and definitely hasn’t discussed it with Dani. I wouldn’t hope you to be comfortable with their Lady/servant relatioinship; it’s pretty unusual and out of order in our thinking. I think your interpretation of Dani’s actions is completely reasonable. Excellent questions.

I’m glad you liked the brought line.

Thank you.

Vale – Go right ahead!

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Menorah Tales | Working It Out | Random Bits

it's not for my post count, i just have things to say

ETA: and did i mention WOOT for the dibs on the replies to feedback? i love doing that and i do it wherever i'm allowed to *looks pointedly at watty*

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Vale
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"When you get excited about something, one might imagine you as a small, maniacally grinning rubber ball, which someone throws at the wall in an enclosed room, and goes bouncing off every surface for about 15 minutes." - Mudrat

It just seems to me that it's something that Dani is doing of her own free will (something she's going to have precious little of soon enough) without any prompting from Tara at all, rather than because she's obligated. Does that make any sense?

That was a great update.

It was interesting seeing Tara delay getting her markings. I guess she knows that when they've both been marked their relationship will change and she's hesitant about bringing about that change.

As others have said I don't think there's anything wrong with the pacing of the story. Also I'm not sure you needed the disclaimer about the drugs. Opium was often used as a pain killer for surgery so it's reasonable that they'd be using it in this setting.

Now that Tara's got her marks, I wonder how long it'll be before Willow gets hers.

Looking forward to the next update

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02/28/2007