Getting What You Ask For: The Writer/Beta Dynamic

[Trom DeGrey]

This thread was born from a series of emails between myself and ambercissism. She asked me for a list of things that a writer should expect from a beta. In addition to this, I thought there should be some things that writers understand a beta may expect of them.

I have been in contact with a few writers recently who have told me they just weren’t getting what they wanted from their last beta. The first thing to understand about being a beta, working with a beta, being a writer or working with a writer is this:

It is a relationship based on communication.

Duh, right? I’m not so sure. I’ve been reading a blog, Miss Snark, a literary agent, and she flails away at one question again and again. When looking for an agent the first thing you ask them is, “What have you sold?” I have never been asked, “What have you beta’d?” Or even, “What have you written?” Why trust me? You have no idea what I’m capable of! I may be the worst beta on the planet! I may barely speak English and have no earthly clue what a semicolon or an adverb is. Ask questions! Ask them to beta a few pages of your work, even something already posted to see if they’ll give you the information and feedback you’re looking for. Don’t just jump into a relationship with a total stranger. Would you do that normally?

If you ask your beta a question, expect an answer – a timely answer. We all have lives and complications, but typing, “I got your email. Swamped today. I’ll get with you as soon as I can,” is not that hard to do. Don’t put up with a beta that won’t answer you. And as a writer, I have never been more frustrated than when I’ve sent something to a beta with a specific question attached and had that question ignored. Expect your beta to pay attention.

Now, what can a beta expect of a writer? I personally have a process in place now. When someone emails me for beta work, I ask them a series of questions. What else, if anything, have you written? What kind of fan fic stories do you like to read? What else do you like to read? Do you have an outline? How close are you to being done with the fic? (I hate the thought of having my name attached to one of the dreaded Unfinished Fics.) If the fic is already partially posted, I read it if I wasn’t already. Why do I make writers jump through those hoops? Why would I want to beta a story I hate? What good am I to a writer if I cringe when I see their update in my Inbox? I’m trying to build that relationship early on.

Please don’t send your beta a rough draft unless you’re just looking for idea feedback. If you’re looking to brainstorm, say so. Otherwise, run Spell Check, read it through and edit it. Act as if what you are sending to your beta is exactly what you would post if you didn’t have a beta at all. I am not your English teacher. I am your beta.

In the end, the way a writer and beta communicate is what makes for a great experience or a bad experience. Lay things out between you ahead of time. “This is what I’d like to see from you. What do you want to see from me?” If you need someone to hold your hand when you write, tell your perspective beta that. If you want someone who is slightly more brutal *raiseshand* then let your perspective beta know that. This isn’t a romance. It’s harder than that! This is writing. So talk it out.

What do you think should be expected from a writer or a beta?

[justin]

I'd empaphise the need for communication between writer and beta. In the past I've had problems with a couple of beta's not responding to emails for long periods. The second one actually just disapeared without a trace.

Which has left me feeling rather wary about the whole betaing process. I mean it is an important process but how do you find a beta that isn't just going to leave you in the lurch?

[Trom DeGrey]

See, it's experiences like those that just make me cringe. Sometimes I hear things like, "Oh, it's just for entertainment." Or, "It's just fan fiction." A very good friend of mine nailed that kind of attitude to the wall when he said, "Sounds like an excuse for mediocrity to me." I've learned so much about writing and editing from writing fan fiction! Having characters already basically drawn for me has allowed me to learn about plot and structure and other things beside creating believable characters. I can also point you to a publisher whose stable of writers mostly had their start writing "just fan fiction" online.

If a writer is willing to put in the time to share the vision in their head, then as their beta I want to honor that effort. It's about respect, in my mind. And giving a half-assed effort or no effort at all even is awfully disrespectful to me.

[Katharyn]

I wouldn't disagree with anything said so far - but I don't believe that the title of the thread embraces all that can happen between writer and beta. I've sat on both sides of that - including beta reading for my own beta reader, which sets up an interesting symbiosis and understanding between the two people.

I've never yet been asked to perform a specific fucntion in beta - nor have I asked anyone to do anything specific for me. It's something that evolves - or doesn't - for me. I've beta-read for people and they haven't been comfortable with where I've gone and the relationship has stopped. On the other hand beta reading for my own beta reader I've ended up taking a hand in actually making posting a fic possible. Right then that was what she needed. When your working well together - and this builds over time - you understand what your writer wants and she understands what she can expect from you.

Personally I would describe my beta reading as... interventionist. Yes, I fulfil certain basic functions changing generic descriptions, punctuation, reordering sentences for better effect etc. But I'll also volunteer a new version of the text in places adding paragraph(s) where I'd like to see more. Suggesting deletions where less is more.

And in my turn I valued that same new perspective in my beta reader. In a very real sense we were occasionally co-writers of each others fics. Sometimes to a greater and sometime to a lesser extent. Getting someone to realise how far you'd like them to go isnt necessarily a question of asking. Sometimes its a matter of accepting, thanking and feeding back on what they do and encouraging them to go further - always assuming you wanted them to.

Like Trom said it's about helping the fic in question to be the best that it can be. I wouldn't want my name on something if I hadn't put the effort in. But to go further than Trom was saying there can be a place where your vision joins with the writers. It's a narrow line between respect for their effort and vision and adding your own - a line that can be crossed to the detriment of the reading. But if your faithful to what exists and only want to help make it better I think - as a beta and a writer - that can be a good thing. It's certainly not the easy or quick option, it takes a lot of work as a beta reader to do that.

As for beta readers who disappear. Sure, shit happens in everyones life. God knows no one needs to tell me that. But if someone doesn't deliver, and more importantly doesn't reply then move on. Get a new reader. if your original reader comes back then sure, by all means go back to her. I've had two beta readers working with my fic for months side by side. They both saw every part but only had responsibilty for every other one, lessening the load. There's no reason that can't work. if you find yourself with more than one you like - great! But I would advise every writer to use a beta reader and learn from them.

Right now I'm without one due to choice. I can't work like I used to - its all slower for reasons I won't go into - but my process is such I have to write, redraft - send to beta - edit in the beta changes I accept and then run a final draft. For physical reasons I can't keep up with that many drafts at the moment so I'm having to forego the beta and I know the work is suffering as a result. Certainly if I could I'd have my beta readers back. I guess what I'm saying is don't let a bad experience put you off the value of a good beta reader. So you might have to look for a while to find them, what you get from those who you don't work well with will probably still only help your story.

Katharyn

[The_Lord_J]

Can I just add, in my opinion betas should also push their writers for better performance, not just correct their mistakes. Kinda like a producer does when a band is recording a record. As a writer I find it so easy to gloss over important things and not realise it until someone points it out and says "Hey, you can do better than this!"

Just my 10p.

[Katharyn]

I wouldn't disagree J, but I think you have to be very careful with that kind of feedback. I've never come across anyone I'd be so blatant with as to use that wording except when I knew them really well from outside beta. It's more appropriate for chat than e-mails IMHO where it won't be misinterpreted. Writing is a very personal thing and some people have problem enough with suggestions, let alone being told "you can do better." Whilst it's entirely constructive, indeed praising their talent, you never know - they might have sweated blood to get to that point and it can be interpreted like your rejecting all that work.

How you approach it will vary from person to person, and your relationship with them, of course.

Katharyn

[The_Lord_J]

Good point, I didn't think of it like that

I think I worded it wrong (which emphasises your point!); I think what I meant was that the beta should be able to pick up on the PARTS of a fic which look like they were written in a rush or glossed over, compared to the parts that the writer obviously did sweat blood over, to try and 'even it out' a bit in terms of quality.

Of course, you don't just say 'do it better', you might have to give them some pionters or whatever. But the gist of it was, push the writer. Be careful about it, but push them to get better. That's just me talking though; all my 'hobbies' in life are things that I always try to better myself at. Stuff where the whole point of doing it is to get good at it, not just the end result or something to pass the time; which is why Ilike writing fic, it's something I can learn about and get better at doing. Plus it (hopefully) gives pleasure to some people.

So maybe that's just what *I* want from a beta - I guess everyone has to figure out exactly what they want from a beta and ask for it accordingly. Some people might not want to be pushed for all I know!

[Katharyn]

I get the impression, and I'm not excluding myself here, that a part of having a beta reader for some people is the affirmation. Yes, that is good. Yes, it will be what people want to read.

Beta readers are confidantes, they take your story - and they buy a stake in it through their work. In many ways they need to be your number one fan, but also the one who's most critical and willing not to blow smoke up your ass just for banging a few keys (which a certain amount of feedback will do even if the reader loves it, sometimes they are grateful for the story and won't tell you what they want to see, think or the flaws ITHO.)

I guess what I really meant to say before is that it's a fine line you walk as a beta reader. But from personal experience I'd say it can be tremendously rewarding - and not just for the fic - if you get the right beta reader and be their friend as well. If you can chat to them, and want to, and be their friend you'll gain someone who'll know much more about you and inevitably what you were trying to achieve in your writing. I think they'll also be more likely to push you in the way I agree they should.

Katharyn