So I'll just repeat the most important thing:
Tara. Pants.
I'll assume I wasn't the only one who frame-by-framed her way through that hallway walk about 15 times.
by Dazey » Wed Mar 13, 2002 3:30 pm
So I'll just repeat the most important thing:
Tara. Pants.
I'll assume I wasn't the only one who frame-by-framed her way through that hallway walk about 15 times.
by Grimaldi » Wed Mar 13, 2002 3:45 pm
by Epicurus » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:07 pm
quote:
Originally posted by xita:
I don't judge a woman by what she wears or her appearance, I wouldn't limit my love of women by such superficial things.
Perhaps the jest of my pants comment fell flat on its face.
Oh well, being facetious is not my forte.
by ormaybenot » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:12 pm
(transplanted by Hugin)
by revision_Johanna » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:20 pm
My meta-ep-comments:
Why would Tara be entering the scooby-cave at that exact instant? It isn't like she chased down Willow after seeing Oh, and definiely gotta watch that Jonathan character... He's a wily one, he is...
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by invisigoth:
He briefly stepped into the sunlight.
When Spike appeared in the doorway and Willow was standing in a patch of sunlight, I was wondering if they were going to mess up with him walking into the room and into some direct sunlight. Nope, they addressed it.
D
------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
IP: Logged
Anyway, I have a question--the spell Tara did while going down the stairs--releasing the ropes--did she have to speak aloud for it to work? Would Willow have been able to do it while gagged? I thought the no magic tho you're all killed wasn't the way to go, tho she could've been waiting for Buffy to come to her senses & save them.
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I'm Cletus the slack-jawed yokel--Willow
IP: Logged
The Willow-usuing-magic-when-endangered topic was done to death on the OAFA thread.
I can't remember a regular (like, not Rack-enhanced) spell done on BTVS that *doesn't* require an incantation.
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I love that. Heh.
Also, did anyone get a flashback to Weight of the World when Buffy was attacking Dawn? Odd. It was like, the same look in her eyes, so focused on what she felt she had to do. Not letting emotion guide her.
Eh, I'm sure I'm making connections where none exist. I must be. Silly old mind.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
[This message has been edited by tommo (edited March 13, 2002).]
IP: Logged
Is it just me, or is the scene where Buffy whacks Xander with the frying pan eerily repetitive of the scene in Xander's faux-future where he comes at Anya with a frying pan...and was there just a moment of recognition of that fact in his eyes before he got whacked? Nice symmetry there, IMO.
We are back to the parallel courses of Buffy and Willow this season. In Smashed (or Wrecked, can't remember which came second) we see Willow's actions hurting Dawn, and Willow repenting as she is forced to choose between a Superhero version of herself which is losing it's moral compass, or a "plain Jane" version of herself which retains all the essential traits that make her loveable and real. Willow says to Buffy...who would you be, if you could choose between SuperWillow or Just Plain Willow, who would you be?
Now, in NA, we see Buffy faced with the same scenario. Her actions have hurt her friends, and she is forced to choose between the Superhero version of herself, in which she has been treading murky moral waters since TBR (The Big Resurrection) or the "plain Jane" version of herself, where she may retain none of the essence of herself, but have the comfort of non-control and the safety of parents to make her decisions for her. I think the Doctor at one point even outlines this dichotomy in the very terms that echoed Willow in Smashed.
For Willow, the only choice is Plain Jane, for Buffy, she must choose the path of the Superhero. I can not help but feel that it is bigtime significant that over and over this season we have been presented with scenarios in which the writers illustrate to us how even though Buffy and Willow are on the same path, their ultimate outcomes will always be different. For both of them, growing up is an acceptance of this...and the implications it bears on each of their futures.
I am looking towards the season finale and wondering how they will finish out this parallel course Buffy and Willow have played out all season long. Truly, I have no idea. I just finished watching the Weight of the World, it played on FX tonight, and I just can't help feeling that two of them are more interconnected than we realize. They are like one another's moral yin and yang. Willow is the light; Buffy is the dark. Problems have arisen this season because Willow has been the dark and Buffy the darker. Buffy needs Willow to be the light, to be *good* so that she has a measure of her own darkness and capacity for inflicting suffering. Going all the way back to Season 1, Buffy is able to fight the master in the end because of the innocence she saw in Willow as Willow grappled to come to terms with the killing of her fellow students in the school. It is Willow who convinces Buffy her actions were not killing Dawn in The Weight of the World. Willow has always been Buffy's moral compass.
For these reasons, after viewing Normal Again it isn't really Willow I'm worried about in the coming episodes. I believe that nomatter how deep Willow goes, she will always find her way back to the "light." Buffy, on the other hand, is a whole different country. I can only imagine how she will react to the devastating events of the coming episodes. Couple that with the fact that we reeeeaaaaly aren't hearing much about her role/reactions, and I gotta say I think that is where the real drama of the season will play out. edited spoilers
Just some thoughts. I think my next moves will be to rewatch Restless, OMWF, the gift, and TWOTW, the non FX hacked version.
"Death is your gift...."
Hmmmmmmm.
------------------
"You're in my blood like Holy Wine
You taste so bitter, and so sweet
Darling, I could drink a case of you
And still be on my feet;
I would still be on my feet."
-Joni Mitchell
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by wiccie:
I can't remember a regular (like, not Rack-enhanced) spell done on BTVS that *doesn't* require an incantation.
Unless you just consider them telekinesis, you'd have the handholds in Hush and The Gift, the floating pencils and the Floating Rose.
D
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They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
IP: Logged
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Autumn
I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.
[This message has been edited by AutumnT (edited March 13, 2002).]
IP: Logged
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"You can sleep with me!
Well now, that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head."
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It's not good that she would jump to the conclusion that Tara was seeing the other girl, but after all, she's been burned badly in the past and it's only natural that she'd be a little bit overly sensitive just as she was hoping they could maybe start officially dating again.
But what I liked the most was that even though she thought Tara might be seeing someone else, her reaction was simply to be hurt and upset. Not to start thinking of spells to make said girl go poof, or Tara to come back to her.
Sure, she might have had the impulse to magick her fist through a wall, but that's just a sign of frustration and not trying to control Tara or her life in order to get what she wants. In a roundabout sort of way, Tara realizing what had happened and everything is actually a positive trust building step for them.
Also, she was able to see Willow in 'action' for the first time, not just a stressful situation, and see that she's learning to not have magick be her first impulse anymore.
Plus, it was sort of cool to see Willow get jealous.
And Woo Hoo, Tara to the rescue! I always love it when that happens.
And this was clearly Buffy's biggest turning point of the season. When she had the chance to go back to what was probably the place she had considered to be Heaven, and chose to be strong and fight.
I tend to think that whether they are parallel realities or if all the Sunnydale stuff is indeed nothing more than a delusion, it's a journey she has to make. It's too all encompassing at this point. Going back would have been quitting and giving up on the journey. And if her mind is creating something that detailed and vivid, then it's probably a journey she needs to see through to the end, one way or the other.
And isn't it funny how Xander, now that he's no longer completely immersed in his own issues, suddenly is noticing that something's up with Buffy and Spike and all that? It's nice to see him start to take an actual interest in his friends' lives again.
Oh, and did anyone else think the shot of Xander getting pulled down the stairs and tossed around looked a lot like Nick's twin doing his stunts for him?
Ari
IP: Logged
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Autumn
I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.
IP: Logged
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The moment near the end where she tells her mother "Good-bye" is absolutely heartbreaking and one of the best moments of the season, IMO. Whether she sacrificed something real or not it obviously felt real to her. Whether it turns out to be pivotal to the story remains to be seen.
It's interesting that Joyce's words to Buffy: "You've got a world of strength in your heart...you just have to find it again. Believe in yourself." are equally applicable to either reality. The mental ward/meta reality thing is a bit of a smokescreen in that they're obviously not going to base the whole rest of the series on "it's all a delusion/illusion" like some endless episode of the Twilight Zone (color me shocked pink if they do!); the important message is about Buffy's journey, as it always is.
Now that everybody in her circle has screwed up royally, she has to pull herself together all by herself. Ultimately, if she can't count on herself she can't count on anybody. After all, every one of her friends relies on her, maybe for their very existence. Certainly their fortunes are intimately linked to hers- she seems to have dragged everybody down with her and now she has to drag them all back up.
Once again we have SMG's amazingly great acting to thank for making the whole thing work. What I want to know is, when does she get her Emmy? I'd like to see Edie Falco kick some demon butt or fall in love with a vampire and make it half as believable and poignant as Sarah does.
[This message has been edited by fell (edited March 14, 2002).]
IP: Logged
Afterall, the first slayer did say something like "You haven't even begun"
Nothing is real. It's all in Buffy's head. And Willow is her subconscious mind who "always come through".
I think things are getting interesting here in this episode...... I mean a town called "Sunnydale", how can it be real? It has to be a place created in Buffy's mind to escape the reality..... yeah Sunnydale...
ummm..... if Willow is her subconscious mind, does that mean Buffy is kinda bi?
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Strangeduck:
In the the first flash to the hospital after the credits when Buffy is at work, there is an orderly or some such who says "It's time for your drugs." Am I on drugs or was that Emma? Did anyone else notice?
No, it wasn't Emma.
D
------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
IP: Logged
but i'm not buying the "maybe the slayer thing really is all in her imagination" theory... not even for a second.
i kinda just saw it as buffy finally accepting who she really is.
thoughout the episode, we see buffy slowly start to lose grip of her reality - giving in to the idea that maybe none of it's true and she really is still stuck in that institution... and then she completely lets go of reality and convinces herself that all she has to do is let go of "slayer" buffy in order to be "buffy" buffy again.
her realisation that she *can't* let go of "slayer" buffy is when she finally wakes up and smells the coffee - slayer buffy is who she is - everything else is just a dream - a total non-reality. that's when she snaps out of it and does what she's always done best - saves her friends and kills the bad guy.
the final shot... with "buffy" buffy totally catatonic... the doctor says "we've lost her"... no we haven't... in fact, it's the total opposite. buffy isn't lost anymore... she's... found. that last shot is buffy's way of saying her final goodbyes to the life she wishes that she could have.
she finally got to say goodbye to her mother - something that she's no doubt wanted to do since joyce died so suddenly. at that point, she's able to get on with her life and move away from the fantasy...
or... i could just be talking garbage.
anyone else notice that buffy confessed to dawn about spike? (i haven't had time to read the entire thread, so someone probably has)
ok... so she confessed whilst chasing dawn... but i doubt that dawn didn't hear that her sister is "sleeping with a vampire she hates"...
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"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site
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IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by whiz:
ummm..... if Willow is her subconscious mind, does that mean Buffy is kinda bi?
No. Buffy's not bi. Willow is another facet of her subconscious mind, with her own personality and emotions. I think the way she begun in the series; sexually benign and totally dedicated to her studies - that's probably more the Willow Buffy had in mind.
However, like the doctor said, things are starting to fall apart. Each character has taken on a distinct individualism, where they go off at tangents and do their own thing.
I don't think that Buffy "creating" someone like Willow gives her the chance to explore her own sexuality. No way. In fact, I think Willow's sexuality has little or nothing to do with Buffy's perception of her in this instance.
And uh...Buffy's straight. As a poker.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by invisigoth:
He briefly stepped into the sunlight.
When Spike appeared in the doorway and Willow was standing in a patch of sunlight, I was wondering if they were going to mess up with him walking into the room and into some direct sunlight. Nope, they addressed it.
D
------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
IP: Logged
posted March 13, 2002 18:22quote:
Originally posted by invisigoth:
He briefly stepped into the sunlight.
When Spike appeared in the doorway and Willow was standing in a patch of sunlight, I was wondering if they were going to mess up with him walking into the room and into some direct sunlight. Nope, they addressed it.
D
------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
Anyway, I have a question--the spell Tara did while going down the stairs--releasing the ropes--did she have to speak aloud for it to work? Would Willow have been able to do it while gagged? I thought the no magic tho you're all killed wasn't the way to go, tho she could've been waiting for Buffy to come to her senses & save them.
------------------
I'm Cletus the slack-jawed yokel--Willow
IP: Logged
posted March 13, 2002 18:52 When Xander hit the basement floor, looked over & said "Willow," did it remind anyone else of ER? When Carter is stabbed, he hits the floor, looks over at Lucy & says her name.Anyway, I have a question--the spell Tara did while going down the stairs--releasing the ropes--did she have to speak aloud for it to work? Would Willow have been able to do it while gagged? I thought the no magic tho you're all killed wasn't the way to go, tho she could've been waiting for Buffy to come to her senses & save them.
------------------
I'm Cletus the slack-jawed yokel--Willow
The Willow-usuing-magic-when-endangered topic was done to death on the OAFA thread.
I can't remember a regular (like, not Rack-enhanced) spell done on BTVS that *doesn't* require an incantation.
IP: Logged
posted March 13, 2002 19:04 Tara did speak for both spells, but I doubt Willow would have used magic with or without the gag, 'cuz she's "magic free now for 'insert number of days now'".The Willow-usuing-magic-when-endangered topic was done to death on the OAFA thread.
I can't remember a regular (like, not Rack-enhanced) spell done on BTVS that *doesn't* require an incantation.
IP: LoggedtommoLesbian Gay Type Lover I love that. Heh.
Also, did anyone get a flashback to Weight of the World when Buffy was attacking Dawn? Odd. It was like, the same look in her eyes, so focused on what she felt she had to do. Not letting emotion guide her.
Eh, I'm sure I'm making connections where none exist. I must be. Silly old mind.
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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
[This message has been edited by tommo (edited March 13, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 13, 2002 19:27 That's what I wanted to say. Hurrah for the return of Tara's stutter when she was saying those spells. It's always adorable. And it shows how emotionally affected she was by what was happening. It just showed me how much she cares.I love that. Heh.
Also, did anyone get a flashback to Weight of the World when Buffy was attacking Dawn? Odd. It was like, the same look in her eyes, so focused on what she felt she had to do. Not letting emotion guide her.
Eh, I'm sure I'm making connections where none exist. I must be. Silly old mind.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
[This message has been edited by tommo (edited March 13, 2002).]
IP: LoggedItaliangirl*unregistered posted March 13, 2002 22:14Is it just me, or is the scene where Buffy whacks Xander with the frying pan eerily repetitive of the scene in Xander's faux-future where he comes at Anya with a frying pan...and was there just a moment of recognition of that fact in his eyes before he got whacked? Nice symmetry there, IMO.
We are back to the parallel courses of Buffy and Willow this season. In Smashed (or Wrecked, can't remember which came second) we see Willow's actions hurting Dawn, and Willow repenting as she is forced to choose between a Superhero version of herself which is losing it's moral compass, or a "plain Jane" version of herself which retains all the essential traits that make her loveable and real. Willow says to Buffy...who would you be, if you could choose between SuperWillow or Just Plain Willow, who would you be?
Now, in NA, we see Buffy faced with the same scenario. Her actions have hurt her friends, and she is forced to choose between the Superhero version of herself, in which she has been treading murky moral waters since TBR (The Big Resurrection) or the "plain Jane" version of herself, where she may retain none of the essence of herself, but have the comfort of non-control and the safety of parents to make her decisions for her. I think the Doctor at one point even outlines this dichotomy in the very terms that echoed Willow in Smashed.
For Willow, the only choice is Plain Jane, for Buffy, she must choose the path of the Superhero. I can not help but feel that it is bigtime significant that over and over this season we have been presented with scenarios in which the writers illustrate to us how even though Buffy and Willow are on the same path, their ultimate outcomes will always be different. For both of them, growing up is an acceptance of this...and the implications it bears on each of their futures.
I am looking towards the season finale and wondering how they will finish out this parallel course Buffy and Willow have played out all season long. Truly, I have no idea. I just finished watching the Weight of the World, it played on FX tonight, and I just can't help feeling that two of them are more interconnected than we realize. They are like one another's moral yin and yang. Willow is the light; Buffy is the dark. Problems have arisen this season because Willow has been the dark and Buffy the darker. Buffy needs Willow to be the light, to be *good* so that she has a measure of her own darkness and capacity for inflicting suffering. Going all the way back to Season 1, Buffy is able to fight the master in the end because of the innocence she saw in Willow as Willow grappled to come to terms with the killing of her fellow students in the school. It is Willow who convinces Buffy her actions were not killing Dawn in The Weight of the World. Willow has always been Buffy's moral compass.
For these reasons, after viewing Normal Again it isn't really Willow I'm worried about in the coming episodes. I believe that nomatter how deep Willow goes, she will always find her way back to the "light." Buffy, on the other hand, is a whole different country. I can only imagine how she will react to the devastating events of the coming episodes. Couple that with the fact that we reeeeaaaaly aren't hearing much about her role/reactions, and I gotta say I think that is where the real drama of the season will play out. edited spoilers
Just some thoughts. I think my next moves will be to rewatch Restless, OMWF, the gift, and TWOTW, the non FX hacked version.
"Death is your gift...."
Hmmmmmmm.
------------------
"You're in my blood like Holy Wine
You taste so bitter, and so sweet
Darling, I could drink a case of you
And still be on my feet;
I would still be on my feet."
-Joni Mitchell
IP: Logged
posted March 13, 2002 22:14 So, just finished second screening of this ep. I love the layers! Here are some new things I'm noticing.Is it just me, or is the scene where Buffy whacks Xander with the frying pan eerily repetitive of the scene in Xander's faux-future where he comes at Anya with a frying pan...and was there just a moment of recognition of that fact in his eyes before he got whacked? Nice symmetry there, IMO.
We are back to the parallel courses of Buffy and Willow this season. In Smashed (or Wrecked, can't remember which came second) we see Willow's actions hurting Dawn, and Willow repenting as she is forced to choose between a Superhero version of herself which is losing it's moral compass, or a "plain Jane" version of herself which retains all the essential traits that make her loveable and real. Willow says to Buffy...who would you be, if you could choose between SuperWillow or Just Plain Willow, who would you be?
Now, in NA, we see Buffy faced with the same scenario. Her actions have hurt her friends, and she is forced to choose between the Superhero version of herself, in which she has been treading murky moral waters since TBR (The Big Resurrection) or the "plain Jane" version of herself, where she may retain none of the essence of herself, but have the comfort of non-control and the safety of parents to make her decisions for her. I think the Doctor at one point even outlines this dichotomy in the very terms that echoed Willow in Smashed.
For Willow, the only choice is Plain Jane, for Buffy, she must choose the path of the Superhero. I can not help but feel that it is bigtime significant that over and over this season we have been presented with scenarios in which the writers illustrate to us how even though Buffy and Willow are on the same path, their ultimate outcomes will always be different. For both of them, growing up is an acceptance of this...and the implications it bears on each of their futures.
I am looking towards the season finale and wondering how they will finish out this parallel course Buffy and Willow have played out all season long. Truly, I have no idea. I just finished watching the Weight of the World, it played on FX tonight, and I just can't help feeling that two of them are more interconnected than we realize. They are like one another's moral yin and yang. Willow is the light; Buffy is the dark. Problems have arisen this season because Willow has been the dark and Buffy the darker. Buffy needs Willow to be the light, to be *good* so that she has a measure of her own darkness and capacity for inflicting suffering. Going all the way back to Season 1, Buffy is able to fight the master in the end because of the innocence she saw in Willow as Willow grappled to come to terms with the killing of her fellow students in the school. It is Willow who convinces Buffy her actions were not killing Dawn in The Weight of the World. Willow has always been Buffy's moral compass.
For these reasons, after viewing Normal Again it isn't really Willow I'm worried about in the coming episodes. I believe that nomatter how deep Willow goes, she will always find her way back to the "light." Buffy, on the other hand, is a whole different country. I can only imagine how she will react to the devastating events of the coming episodes. Couple that with the fact that we reeeeaaaaly aren't hearing much about her role/reactions, and I gotta say I think that is where the real drama of the season will play out. edited spoilers
Just some thoughts. I think my next moves will be to rewatch Restless, OMWF, the gift, and TWOTW, the non FX hacked version.
"Death is your gift...."
Hmmmmmmm.
------------------
"You're in my blood like Holy Wine
You taste so bitter, and so sweet
Darling, I could drink a case of you
And still be on my feet;
I would still be on my feet."
-Joni Mitchell
quote:
Originally posted by wiccie:
I can't remember a regular (like, not Rack-enhanced) spell done on BTVS that *doesn't* require an incantation.
Unless you just consider them telekinesis, you'd have the handholds in Hush and The Gift, the floating pencils and the Floating Rose.
D
------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
IP: Logged
posted March 13, 2002 22:49quote:
Originally posted by wiccie:
I can't remember a regular (like, not Rack-enhanced) spell done on BTVS that *doesn't* require an incantation.
Unless you just consider them telekinesis, you'd have the handholds in Hush and The Gift, the floating pencils and the Floating Rose.
D
------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
------------------
Autumn
I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.
[This message has been edited by AutumnT (edited March 13, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 13, 2002 23:54 And EW weighs in http://www.ew.com/r0/ew/AllAboutSearchLinksClik/in?/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,217187~3~0~,00.html------------------
Autumn
I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.
[This message has been edited by AutumnT (edited March 13, 2002).]
IP: Loggedchrista monstaCool Monster Fighter ------------------
"You can sleep with me!
Well now, that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head."
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 00:05------------------
"You can sleep with me!
Well now, that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head."
It's not good that she would jump to the conclusion that Tara was seeing the other girl, but after all, she's been burned badly in the past and it's only natural that she'd be a little bit overly sensitive just as she was hoping they could maybe start officially dating again.
But what I liked the most was that even though she thought Tara might be seeing someone else, her reaction was simply to be hurt and upset. Not to start thinking of spells to make said girl go poof, or Tara to come back to her.
Sure, she might have had the impulse to magick her fist through a wall, but that's just a sign of frustration and not trying to control Tara or her life in order to get what she wants. In a roundabout sort of way, Tara realizing what had happened and everything is actually a positive trust building step for them.
Also, she was able to see Willow in 'action' for the first time, not just a stressful situation, and see that she's learning to not have magick be her first impulse anymore.
Plus, it was sort of cool to see Willow get jealous.
And Woo Hoo, Tara to the rescue! I always love it when that happens.
And this was clearly Buffy's biggest turning point of the season. When she had the chance to go back to what was probably the place she had considered to be Heaven, and chose to be strong and fight.
I tend to think that whether they are parallel realities or if all the Sunnydale stuff is indeed nothing more than a delusion, it's a journey she has to make. It's too all encompassing at this point. Going back would have been quitting and giving up on the journey. And if her mind is creating something that detailed and vivid, then it's probably a journey she needs to see through to the end, one way or the other.
And isn't it funny how Xander, now that he's no longer completely immersed in his own issues, suddenly is noticing that something's up with Buffy and Spike and all that? It's nice to see him start to take an actual interest in his friends' lives again.
Oh, and did anyone else think the shot of Xander getting pulled down the stairs and tossed around looked a lot like Nick's twin doing his stunts for him?
Ari
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 00:10 As I watched the first part where she saw Tara with the other girl, in some ways her reaction made me kind of proud of Willow.It's not good that she would jump to the conclusion that Tara was seeing the other girl, but after all, she's been burned badly in the past and it's only natural that she'd be a little bit overly sensitive just as she was hoping they could maybe start officially dating again.
But what I liked the most was that even though she thought Tara might be seeing someone else, her reaction was simply to be hurt and upset. Not to start thinking of spells to make said girl go poof, or Tara to come back to her.
Sure, she might have had the impulse to magick her fist through a wall, but that's just a sign of frustration and not trying to control Tara or her life in order to get what she wants. In a roundabout sort of way, Tara realizing what had happened and everything is actually a positive trust building step for them.
Also, she was able to see Willow in 'action' for the first time, not just a stressful situation, and see that she's learning to not have magick be her first impulse anymore.
Plus, it was sort of cool to see Willow get jealous.
And Woo Hoo, Tara to the rescue! I always love it when that happens.
And this was clearly Buffy's biggest turning point of the season. When she had the chance to go back to what was probably the place she had considered to be Heaven, and chose to be strong and fight.
I tend to think that whether they are parallel realities or if all the Sunnydale stuff is indeed nothing more than a delusion, it's a journey she has to make. It's too all encompassing at this point. Going back would have been quitting and giving up on the journey. And if her mind is creating something that detailed and vivid, then it's probably a journey she needs to see through to the end, one way or the other.
And isn't it funny how Xander, now that he's no longer completely immersed in his own issues, suddenly is noticing that something's up with Buffy and Spike and all that? It's nice to see him start to take an actual interest in his friends' lives again.
Oh, and did anyone else think the shot of Xander getting pulled down the stairs and tossed around looked a lot like Nick's twin doing his stunts for him?
Ari
IP: LoggedAutumnTSassy Eggs ------------------
Autumn
I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 01:14 Well in the new Buffy mag there is a comment in the stunt article section about the new stunt guy teaching Nick's brother stunt stuff. Maybe he's doubling some now stunt-wise------------------
Autumn
I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.
IP: LoggedDr. StrangeduckBlessed Wannabe IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 02:49 Wow!! I just watched this episode and I am completely blown away. I think I'm going to go insane waiting for the rest of the season. I wanted to ask, though, if anyone else noticed something. In the the first flash to the hospital after the credits when Buffy is at work, there is an orderly or some such who says "It's time for your drugs." Am I on drugs or was that Emma? Did anyone else notice?IP: LoggedmuciferWillowhand IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 08:05 so many layers to this episode. i'm not sure if others have mentioned this, but, buffy seems to be following tara's path more and more. she first connected with tara when her mother died, then more with the spike secret, now we know that both of them have history of mental illness. seems that they will only get closer from this. hope willow wont get jealous. seems that tara could be more and more her guide from "restless".IP: LoggedwillowtarasandwichFloating Rose IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 08:18 Dr Strangeduck - it sure looked like Emma to me as well!IP: LoggedfellSassy Eggs The moment near the end where she tells her mother "Good-bye" is absolutely heartbreaking and one of the best moments of the season, IMO. Whether she sacrificed something real or not it obviously felt real to her. Whether it turns out to be pivotal to the story remains to be seen.
It's interesting that Joyce's words to Buffy: "You've got a world of strength in your heart...you just have to find it again. Believe in yourself." are equally applicable to either reality. The mental ward/meta reality thing is a bit of a smokescreen in that they're obviously not going to base the whole rest of the series on "it's all a delusion/illusion" like some endless episode of the Twilight Zone (color me shocked pink if they do!); the important message is about Buffy's journey, as it always is.
Now that everybody in her circle has screwed up royally, she has to pull herself together all by herself. Ultimately, if she can't count on herself she can't count on anybody. After all, every one of her friends relies on her, maybe for their very existence. Certainly their fortunes are intimately linked to hers- she seems to have dragged everybody down with her and now she has to drag them all back up.
Once again we have SMG's amazingly great acting to thank for making the whole thing work. What I want to know is, when does she get her Emmy? I'd like to see Edie Falco kick some demon butt or fall in love with a vampire and make it half as believable and poignant as Sarah does.
[This message has been edited by fell (edited March 14, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 08:49 I thought this was an awesome and powerful episode, and not just because of the return of some W/T goodness. Sarah's acting was incredible, her performance kept reminding me of The Body. The entire series is, like The Odyssey, about her journey- the hero's journey. It's about her confronting and overcoming obstacles. In hindsight, the strongest episodes (and the climactic points of the story arc) are often the ones where she is forced to make some great personal sacrifice: her lover (Becoming), her innocence (Graduation Day), her life (Prophecy Girl, The Gift).The moment near the end where she tells her mother "Good-bye" is absolutely heartbreaking and one of the best moments of the season, IMO. Whether she sacrificed something real or not it obviously felt real to her. Whether it turns out to be pivotal to the story remains to be seen.
It's interesting that Joyce's words to Buffy: "You've got a world of strength in your heart...you just have to find it again. Believe in yourself." are equally applicable to either reality. The mental ward/meta reality thing is a bit of a smokescreen in that they're obviously not going to base the whole rest of the series on "it's all a delusion/illusion" like some endless episode of the Twilight Zone (color me shocked pink if they do!); the important message is about Buffy's journey, as it always is.
Now that everybody in her circle has screwed up royally, she has to pull herself together all by herself. Ultimately, if she can't count on herself she can't count on anybody. After all, every one of her friends relies on her, maybe for their very existence. Certainly their fortunes are intimately linked to hers- she seems to have dragged everybody down with her and now she has to drag them all back up.
Once again we have SMG's amazingly great acting to thank for making the whole thing work. What I want to know is, when does she get her Emmy? I'd like to see Edie Falco kick some demon butt or fall in love with a vampire and make it half as believable and poignant as Sarah does.
[This message has been edited by fell (edited March 14, 2002).]
IP: LoggedwhizBlessed Wannabe Afterall, the first slayer did say something like "You haven't even begun"
Nothing is real. It's all in Buffy's head. And Willow is her subconscious mind who "always come through".
I think things are getting interesting here in this episode...... I mean a town called "Sunnydale", how can it be real? It has to be a place created in Buffy's mind to escape the reality..... yeah Sunnydale...
ummm..... if Willow is her subconscious mind, does that mean Buffy is kinda bi?
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 08:51 this episode certainly makes a lot of sense to me. Buffy may have never got out of the institute since the very beginning after she had seen the first vampire, who knows.Afterall, the first slayer did say something like "You haven't even begun"
Nothing is real. It's all in Buffy's head. And Willow is her subconscious mind who "always come through".
I think things are getting interesting here in this episode...... I mean a town called "Sunnydale", how can it be real? It has to be a place created in Buffy's mind to escape the reality..... yeah Sunnydale...
ummm..... if Willow is her subconscious mind, does that mean Buffy is kinda bi?
IP: LoggedEnigmaticDoll's Eye Crystal IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 09:32 LOVED Ponytail Willow...gosh, it was so cute!! quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Strangeduck:
In the the first flash to the hospital after the credits when Buffy is at work, there is an orderly or some such who says "It's time for your drugs." Am I on drugs or was that Emma? Did anyone else notice?
No, it wasn't Emma.
D
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They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 10:14quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Strangeduck:
In the the first flash to the hospital after the credits when Buffy is at work, there is an orderly or some such who says "It's time for your drugs." Am I on drugs or was that Emma? Did anyone else notice?
No, it wasn't Emma.
D
------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
but i'm not buying the "maybe the slayer thing really is all in her imagination" theory... not even for a second.
i kinda just saw it as buffy finally accepting who she really is.
thoughout the episode, we see buffy slowly start to lose grip of her reality - giving in to the idea that maybe none of it's true and she really is still stuck in that institution... and then she completely lets go of reality and convinces herself that all she has to do is let go of "slayer" buffy in order to be "buffy" buffy again.
her realisation that she *can't* let go of "slayer" buffy is when she finally wakes up and smells the coffee - slayer buffy is who she is - everything else is just a dream - a total non-reality. that's when she snaps out of it and does what she's always done best - saves her friends and kills the bad guy.
the final shot... with "buffy" buffy totally catatonic... the doctor says "we've lost her"... no we haven't... in fact, it's the total opposite. buffy isn't lost anymore... she's... found. that last shot is buffy's way of saying her final goodbyes to the life she wishes that she could have.
she finally got to say goodbye to her mother - something that she's no doubt wanted to do since joyce died so suddenly. at that point, she's able to get on with her life and move away from the fantasy...
or... i could just be talking garbage.
anyone else notice that buffy confessed to dawn about spike? (i haven't had time to read the entire thread, so someone probably has)
ok... so she confessed whilst chasing dawn... but i doubt that dawn didn't hear that her sister is "sleeping with a vampire she hates"...
------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 12:07 i thought this episode was really interesting...but i'm not buying the "maybe the slayer thing really is all in her imagination" theory... not even for a second.
i kinda just saw it as buffy finally accepting who she really is.
thoughout the episode, we see buffy slowly start to lose grip of her reality - giving in to the idea that maybe none of it's true and she really is still stuck in that institution... and then she completely lets go of reality and convinces herself that all she has to do is let go of "slayer" buffy in order to be "buffy" buffy again.
her realisation that she *can't* let go of "slayer" buffy is when she finally wakes up and smells the coffee - slayer buffy is who she is - everything else is just a dream - a total non-reality. that's when she snaps out of it and does what she's always done best - saves her friends and kills the bad guy.
the final shot... with "buffy" buffy totally catatonic... the doctor says "we've lost her"... no we haven't... in fact, it's the total opposite. buffy isn't lost anymore... she's... found. that last shot is buffy's way of saying her final goodbyes to the life she wishes that she could have.
she finally got to say goodbye to her mother - something that she's no doubt wanted to do since joyce died so suddenly. at that point, she's able to get on with her life and move away from the fantasy...
or... i could just be talking garbage.
anyone else notice that buffy confessed to dawn about spike? (i haven't had time to read the entire thread, so someone probably has)
ok... so she confessed whilst chasing dawn... but i doubt that dawn didn't hear that her sister is "sleeping with a vampire she hates"...
------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 12:13 Is it really true .. no new eps until April 23rd? Wah!!! IP: LoggedtommoLesbian Gay Type Lover quote:
Originally posted by whiz:
ummm..... if Willow is her subconscious mind, does that mean Buffy is kinda bi?
No. Buffy's not bi. Willow is another facet of her subconscious mind, with her own personality and emotions. I think the way she begun in the series; sexually benign and totally dedicated to her studies - that's probably more the Willow Buffy had in mind.
However, like the doctor said, things are starting to fall apart. Each character has taken on a distinct individualism, where they go off at tangents and do their own thing.
I don't think that Buffy "creating" someone like Willow gives her the chance to explore her own sexuality. No way. In fact, I think Willow's sexuality has little or nothing to do with Buffy's perception of her in this instance.
And uh...Buffy's straight. As a poker.
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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
posted March 14, 2002 12:14quote:
Originally posted by whiz:
ummm..... if Willow is her subconscious mind, does that mean Buffy is kinda bi?
No. Buffy's not bi. Willow is another facet of her subconscious mind, with her own personality and emotions. I think the way she begun in the series; sexually benign and totally dedicated to her studies - that's probably more the Willow Buffy had in mind.
However, like the doctor said, things are starting to fall apart. Each character has taken on a distinct individualism, where they go off at tangents and do their own thing.
I don't think that Buffy "creating" someone like Willow gives her the chance to explore her own sexuality. No way. In fact, I think Willow's sexuality has little or nothing to do with Buffy's perception of her in this instance.
And uh...Buffy's straight. As a poker.
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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
by GODisTigger » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:22 pm
quote:
Originally posted by invisigoth:
He briefly stepped into the sunlight.
When Spike appeared in the doorway and Willow was standing in a patch of sunlight, I was wondering if they were going to mess up with him walking into the room and into some direct sunlight. Nope, they addressed it.
D
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They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
by Daffy » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:52 pm
Anyway, I have a question--the spell Tara did while going down the stairs--releasing the ropes--did she have to speak aloud for it to work? Would Willow have been able to do it while gagged? I thought the no magic tho you're all killed wasn't the way to go, tho she could've been waiting for Buffy to come to her senses & save them.
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I'm Cletus the slack-jawed yokel--Willow
by wiccie » Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:04 pm
The Willow-usuing-magic-when-endangered topic was done to death on the OAFA thread.
I can't remember a regular (like, not Rack-enhanced) spell done on BTVS that *doesn't* require an incantation.
by tommo » Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:27 pm
I love that. Heh.
Also, did anyone get a flashback to Weight of the World when Buffy was attacking Dawn? Odd. It was like, the same look in her eyes, so focused on what she felt she had to do. Not letting emotion guide her.
Eh, I'm sure I'm making connections where none exist. I must be. Silly old mind.
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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
[This message has been edited by tommo (edited March 13, 2002).]
by Italiangirl* » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:14 pm
Is it just me, or is the scene where Buffy whacks Xander with the frying pan eerily repetitive of the scene in Xander's faux-future where he comes at Anya with a frying pan...and was there just a moment of recognition of that fact in his eyes before he got whacked? Nice symmetry there, IMO.
We are back to the parallel courses of Buffy and Willow this season. In Smashed (or Wrecked, can't remember which came second) we see Willow's actions hurting Dawn, and Willow repenting as she is forced to choose between a Superhero version of herself which is losing it's moral compass, or a "plain Jane" version of herself which retains all the essential traits that make her loveable and real. Willow says to Buffy...who would you be, if you could choose between SuperWillow or Just Plain Willow, who would you be?
Now, in NA, we see Buffy faced with the same scenario. Her actions have hurt her friends, and she is forced to choose between the Superhero version of herself, in which she has been treading murky moral waters since TBR (The Big Resurrection) or the "plain Jane" version of herself, where she may retain none of the essence of herself, but have the comfort of non-control and the safety of parents to make her decisions for her. I think the Doctor at one point even outlines this dichotomy in the very terms that echoed Willow in Smashed.
For Willow, the only choice is Plain Jane, for Buffy, she must choose the path of the Superhero. I can not help but feel that it is bigtime significant that over and over this season we have been presented with scenarios in which the writers illustrate to us how even though Buffy and Willow are on the same path, their ultimate outcomes will always be different. For both of them, growing up is an acceptance of this...and the implications it bears on each of their futures.
I am looking towards the season finale and wondering how they will finish out this parallel course Buffy and Willow have played out all season long. Truly, I have no idea. I just finished watching the Weight of the World, it played on FX tonight, and I just can't help feeling that two of them are more interconnected than we realize. They are like one another's moral yin and yang. Willow is the light; Buffy is the dark. Problems have arisen this season because Willow has been the dark and Buffy the darker. Buffy needs Willow to be the light, to be *good* so that she has a measure of her own darkness and capacity for inflicting suffering. Going all the way back to Season 1, Buffy is able to fight the master in the end because of the innocence she saw in Willow as Willow grappled to come to terms with the killing of her fellow students in the school. It is Willow who convinces Buffy her actions were not killing Dawn in The Weight of the World. Willow has always been Buffy's moral compass.
For these reasons, after viewing Normal Again it isn't really Willow I'm worried about in the coming episodes. I believe that nomatter how deep Willow goes, she will always find her way back to the "light." Buffy, on the other hand, is a whole different country. I can only imagine how she will react to the devastating events of the coming episodes. Couple that with the fact that we reeeeaaaaly aren't hearing much about her role/reactions, and I gotta say I think that is where the real drama of the season will play out. edited spoilers
Just some thoughts. I think my next moves will be to rewatch Restless, OMWF, the gift, and TWOTW, the non FX hacked version.
"Death is your gift...."
Hmmmmmmm.
------------------
"You're in my blood like Holy Wine
You taste so bitter, and so sweet
Darling, I could drink a case of you
And still be on my feet;
I would still be on my feet."
-Joni Mitchell
by GODisTigger » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:49 pm
quote:
Originally posted by wiccie:
I can't remember a regular (like, not Rack-enhanced) spell done on BTVS that *doesn't* require an incantation.
Unless you just consider them telekinesis, you'd have the handholds in Hush and The Gift, the floating pencils and the Floating Rose.
D
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They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
by AutumnT » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:54 pm
------------------
Autumn
I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.
[This message has been edited by AutumnT (edited March 13, 2002).]
by christa monsta » Wed Mar 13, 2002 10:05 pm
------------------
"You can sleep with me!
Well now, that came out a lot more lesbian than it sounded in my head."
by Ari » Wed Mar 13, 2002 10:10 pm
It's not good that she would jump to the conclusion that Tara was seeing the other girl, but after all, she's been burned badly in the past and it's only natural that she'd be a little bit overly sensitive just as she was hoping they could maybe start officially dating again.
But what I liked the most was that even though she thought Tara might be seeing someone else, her reaction was simply to be hurt and upset. Not to start thinking of spells to make said girl go poof, or Tara to come back to her.
Sure, she might have had the impulse to magick her fist through a wall, but that's just a sign of frustration and not trying to control Tara or her life in order to get what she wants. In a roundabout sort of way, Tara realizing what had happened and everything is actually a positive trust building step for them.
Also, she was able to see Willow in 'action' for the first time, not just a stressful situation, and see that she's learning to not have magick be her first impulse anymore.
Plus, it was sort of cool to see Willow get jealous.
And Woo Hoo, Tara to the rescue! I always love it when that happens.
And this was clearly Buffy's biggest turning point of the season. When she had the chance to go back to what was probably the place she had considered to be Heaven, and chose to be strong and fight.
I tend to think that whether they are parallel realities or if all the Sunnydale stuff is indeed nothing more than a delusion, it's a journey she has to make. It's too all encompassing at this point. Going back would have been quitting and giving up on the journey. And if her mind is creating something that detailed and vivid, then it's probably a journey she needs to see through to the end, one way or the other.
And isn't it funny how Xander, now that he's no longer completely immersed in his own issues, suddenly is noticing that something's up with Buffy and Spike and all that? It's nice to see him start to take an actual interest in his friends' lives again.
Oh, and did anyone else think the shot of Xander getting pulled down the stairs and tossed around looked a lot like Nick's twin doing his stunts for him?
Ari
by AutumnT » Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:14 pm
------------------
Autumn
I have the sudden urge to dedicate my productive cooperation.
by Dr. Strangeduck » Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:49 am
by mucifer » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:05 am
by willowtarasandwich » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:18 am
by fell » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:49 am
The moment near the end where she tells her mother "Good-bye" is absolutely heartbreaking and one of the best moments of the season, IMO. Whether she sacrificed something real or not it obviously felt real to her. Whether it turns out to be pivotal to the story remains to be seen.
It's interesting that Joyce's words to Buffy: "You've got a world of strength in your heart...you just have to find it again. Believe in yourself." are equally applicable to either reality. The mental ward/meta reality thing is a bit of a smokescreen in that they're obviously not going to base the whole rest of the series on "it's all a delusion/illusion" like some endless episode of the Twilight Zone (color me shocked pink if they do!); the important message is about Buffy's journey, as it always is.
Now that everybody in her circle has screwed up royally, she has to pull herself together all by herself. Ultimately, if she can't count on herself she can't count on anybody. After all, every one of her friends relies on her, maybe for their very existence. Certainly their fortunes are intimately linked to hers- she seems to have dragged everybody down with her and now she has to drag them all back up.
Once again we have SMG's amazingly great acting to thank for making the whole thing work. What I want to know is, when does she get her Emmy? I'd like to see Edie Falco kick some demon butt or fall in love with a vampire and make it half as believable and poignant as Sarah does.
[This message has been edited by fell (edited March 14, 2002).]
by whiz » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:51 am
Afterall, the first slayer did say something like "You haven't even begun"
Nothing is real. It's all in Buffy's head. And Willow is her subconscious mind who "always come through".
I think things are getting interesting here in this episode...... I mean a town called "Sunnydale", how can it be real? It has to be a place created in Buffy's mind to escape the reality..... yeah Sunnydale...
ummm..... if Willow is her subconscious mind, does that mean Buffy is kinda bi?
by Enigmatic » Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:32 am
by GODisTigger » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:14 am
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Strangeduck:
In the the first flash to the hospital after the credits when Buffy is at work, there is an orderly or some such who says "It's time for your drugs." Am I on drugs or was that Emma? Did anyone else notice?
No, it wasn't Emma.
D
------------------
They have Dial-A-Prayer for atheists now. You call up but nobody answers.
by WiccanBex » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:07 am
but i'm not buying the "maybe the slayer thing really is all in her imagination" theory... not even for a second.
i kinda just saw it as buffy finally accepting who she really is.
thoughout the episode, we see buffy slowly start to lose grip of her reality - giving in to the idea that maybe none of it's true and she really is still stuck in that institution... and then she completely lets go of reality and convinces herself that all she has to do is let go of "slayer" buffy in order to be "buffy" buffy again.
her realisation that she *can't* let go of "slayer" buffy is when she finally wakes up and smells the coffee - slayer buffy is who she is - everything else is just a dream - a total non-reality. that's when she snaps out of it and does what she's always done best - saves her friends and kills the bad guy.
the final shot... with "buffy" buffy totally catatonic... the doctor says "we've lost her"... no we haven't... in fact, it's the total opposite. buffy isn't lost anymore... she's... found. that last shot is buffy's way of saying her final goodbyes to the life she wishes that she could have.
she finally got to say goodbye to her mother - something that she's no doubt wanted to do since joyce died so suddenly. at that point, she's able to get on with her life and move away from the fantasy...
or... i could just be talking garbage.
anyone else notice that buffy confessed to dawn about spike? (i haven't had time to read the entire thread, so someone probably has)
ok... so she confessed whilst chasing dawn... but i doubt that dawn didn't hear that her sister is "sleeping with a vampire she hates"...
------------------
"if you throw a stone, something's gonna shatter somewhere. We're all so fragile, we're all so scared."
Convention review site
by buffelina » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:13 am
by tommo » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:14 am
quote:
Originally posted by whiz:
ummm..... if Willow is her subconscious mind, does that mean Buffy is kinda bi?
No. Buffy's not bi. Willow is another facet of her subconscious mind, with her own personality and emotions. I think the way she begun in the series; sexually benign and totally dedicated to her studies - that's probably more the Willow Buffy had in mind.
However, like the doctor said, things are starting to fall apart. Each character has taken on a distinct individualism, where they go off at tangents and do their own thing.
I don't think that Buffy "creating" someone like Willow gives her the chance to explore her own sexuality. No way. In fact, I think Willow's sexuality has little or nothing to do with Buffy's perception of her in this instance.
And uh...Buffy's straight. As a poker.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
by wiccie » Thu Mar 14, 2002 10:55 am
Yes, I consider the moving or floating/levitation(*G*) of people & things to be Telekinesis, and therefore not an official "spell". Like Willow's Telepathy (The Gift & Bargaining), Telekinesis is probably tied into her magical abilities (likewise for Tara) but doesn't require the usual set-up (ingredients and/or incantation) of a spell, just mental/emotional concentration.
Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.
[This message has been edited by wiccie (edited March 14, 2002).]
by fell » Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:33 pm
I agree with Sarah Kuhn's contention that this episode laid it on too thick in the same way they did with the whole drug/magic metaphor. That's why people are wondering if undercutting the mythology of the whole series was the writers' intent. I think it's more likely that's just the way the ep's writer wrote it and that we won't hear a thing about which is the really real Buffy in the next ep. (Who the frilly heck is Diego Gutierrez, anyway? Has he ever even been credited before?)
Compare this over-meta-ing to the perfect touch of Amber's "Grr, Arrgh" in Bargaining or some of Giles' humorous asides in S1. That's more the kind of self-reference we've gotten used to hearing on the show. In those terms I felt the writing of this ep was a bit tone deaf.
by Hugin » Thu Mar 14, 2002 1:25 pm
quote:
Originally posted by fell:
If she's really insane in the "real" world then there are no vampires. Demons are just as unreal as Dawn is.
But that doesn't really derail the logic of the episode.
Buffy Summers suffers a psychotic break in the "real world", and only then starts babbling about vampires, and is institutionalized. She remains there, retreating further from reality, building an ever more elaborate fantasy world. Two of these fantasies are "They let me out of that first institution because I wasn't really sick. And the vampires really were real."
It's not a logical inconsistency, it's just a statement that Buffy has incorporated events immediately following the onset of her own break into her fantasy.
Buffy need only have A: Some minor awareness that at some point someone thought she was ill, whether she believes it or not, and B: Some awareness that at some point she was institutionalized.
Case studies will show that many people suffering from severe delusional breaks can still be aware that other people think they're crazy.
quote:
(Who the frilly heck is Diego Gutierrez, anyway? Has he ever even been credited before?)
Evidently he was Joss's personal assistant at ME for a long time. And I guess like Mere Smith, over time he managed to impress Joss enough to give him a shot.
-len
[This message has been edited by Hugin (edited March 14, 2002).]
quote:quote:by Ari » Thu Mar 14, 2002 1:37 pm
Ever since she came back, Buffy hasn't been totally there. They've even had a few scenes of her like staring off into space like she was on the verge of going nutty a few times.
What Normal Again suggested is that this is where the other part of Buffy was. The part she's been missing. That all this time, she's tried to exist in both places, unwilling to give up 'Heaven' and yet unable to turn her back on the reality of everything in Sunnydale.
When she makes her choice and goes back, she goes back completely. That's the purpose of that last shot that has the doctor saying that she's totally gone and there's no reaction whatsoever.
If I was the betting sort, I might be tempted to say that Spike probably couldn't even hit her anymore. Because for the first time, she's fully alive once again.
Ari
by wiccie » Thu Mar 14, 2002 1:46 pm
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