by Dr.G » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:11 am
by amberisadamngoddess » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:12 am
by Still Waters Run Deep » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:12 am
The more I think of this the less I think it will be Tara. You've heard the reasons:
* Joss and Co have done the mojo on us before, nothing new there, except this time it's hit a nerve. Would we be so worked up if it were Spike leaving, I think not.
* As Bob so beautifully put it, it makes no sense from a narrative, storyline point. Joss and co are crafters, it would be like Michaelangelo sticking Daffy Duck's head on the statue of David....
* The third reaason, which no one has raised [as far as I can see] is that of 'Character Development'.....Again Bob can put me right on this but it's something that is constantly alluded to in the UK over the quality of the best American sit-coms...that the audience see the characters development through several seasons.
Tara, IMO, is still a character in development, who has really only just started not being just Willows g/f in this season. I've banged on for ages about how there is more to Tara than meets the eye, and I'm sticking to that view. It makes no sense for ME to start to get to grips with Tara's development, show us all that she is strong, principled, spiritual, a natural mentor, guide and enabler for all the Scoobies, only to dispose of her just as she is poised to take over Giles' place.
No, I still think its a scam.
I have faith in Joss, ME and very especially Amber to deliver the goods.
------------------
love and kisses
Still Waters Run Deep
*Hands! Hands in new places!*
by Robin » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:14 am
But apart from this, I'm sorry for the way I expressed my thought (english is not my mother language), it wasn't meant that rough as it may sound now.
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
by xita » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:16 am
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
by theatremouse » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:16 am
quote:
Originally posted by Kendahl897:
OK , don't bite my head off, but Bikkatt over at the Bronze is adamant that Emma Caulfield did not sign a contract for next season and that Amber did, similar to the one for this season. Goes on to say where he got the info, too. Also, I went back and read Wanda's spoilers concerning the BSD. The first one being 4th one's a charm, the second being that the one who dies will have a broken heart. Now if I'd just spent hours having make-up sex with Willow, the last thing I would be was broken-hearted. Is there anyone out there with the resources and contacts to look up the contract info?
(the mouse got sudden glimmers of hope and a twinkle in the eye..... i know it wont last but i'm enoying this minute of brightness i just felt. ------------------
It's horrible! That's me as a vampire. I'm so evil and... skanky. And I think I'm kinda gay.
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
Willow and Tara, the charming witches...
I think it would make a great show!!
IP: Logged
All I ask is that folks continue to write T/W fiction, in spite of the spoilers, and in spite of Joss. Look at Xena, the show ended she died, the fanfaiction lived on. I have been reading the Virtual Seasons for Xena and in some cases they are better than the last TV season. We can and will live through this one.
IP: Logged
I leave you all alone for two days and what happens? You end up on the menu!
People...I thought we covered this:
1) Joss loves Amber, Tara and W/T. She's been to his house numerous times. She has accompanied him (along with James Marsters) to awards shows. It is so obvious he likes her as a person and respects her as an actress; why would he kill off her character and banish her to the outer darkness. (Don't bring up Kristine Sutherland; the death of Joyce was a thematic necessity, sad as it was. Killing Tara off would be a huge shock, but then what? It makes no sense.) Remember how disappointed and even angry both Joss and Alyson were when Seth left? They obviously value their friendship with Amber, and this would jeopardize it
2) Joss and ME love to send out tidbits of disinformation and misdirection. He knows that we are waiting to jump on the slightest bit of water-cooler gossip and discuss it endlessly. He knows that we will rearrange schedules, blow off night school and set up multiple VCRs to make sure we do not miss this episode!
3) Amber loves the show, and would not want to sacrifice a fairly regular paycheck for the uncertainly of movies. Unless she's getting a helluva lot of offers (a la Seth Green) she has no financial incentive to leave. Right now, my little birds tell me it's Alyson whom the Flying CAA Monkeys are buzzing around, given APII. Amber just bought a house. Nuff Said.
Okay, kids, let's just ratchet it down a few notches. I know, it's not nice to hear stuff like this, but don't hold the funeral until we get the wildfeed. (Hey, that should be a tagline!)
Keep the faith, kids.
------------------
"How's that cramp doing, Spike? Why dontcha put some ice on it?"
IP: Logged
Herc has been pretty dead on this season and back in December he said:
"We will say that the 'not one of the Scoobies' description may be misleading. The doomed major character Coax referred to, regardless of that character’s Scooby status right now, may no longer be considered a Scooby by the time that character meets his or her unnatural and permanent demise."
When Herc wrote this, Willow and Tara were broken up. The break up is the only thing that we know of now that could render Tara "no longer a Scooby." We also know that the break up is OVER by the time the BSD happens. So even if Tara was "no longer a Scooby," she's back to being a Scooby by the time the BSD happens.
BUT, just to give a counterargument, we know that Herc thought the BSD would happen around the time of the wedding. Willow and Tara aren't back together at that time, so one could argue that she was "no longer a Scooby" at the time the BSD was to occur in Herc's timeline. But I still say that Tara is a Scooby even at that point in the series because she is doing research for Buffy, comforting Buffy, attending the birthday party, etc.
Anya, on the other hand, was still a Scooby when Herc wrote this spoiler, but if she goes V demon, she will "no longer be a Scooby" when the BSD happens.
Next, Herc refers to the BSD as "unnatural." While getting shot isn't the run of the mill death, it's certainly not "unnatural." I would think this would mean it has something to do with demons, though not necessarily of the "mystical energy" sort. But this one's debatable.
In addition, we've heard fairly detailed spoilers about Anya and Tara. Maybe all of them are true, hence the seemingly conflicting spoilers about who the BSD is.
I guess I see everyone's point about a reset being lame. BUT, if given the choice I'd choose a lame ending over Tara's death any day. Also, just because there might be some kind of "undo the wish" or time warp solution, doesn't necessarily mean it would be lame. I remember how lame many of us thought Willow resurrecting Buffy would be, but it ended up being fine because the writers focused not on the resurrection but on the effects of the resurrection on all the characters. So even though it seemed like a lame idea, they pulled it off with class (IMO).
Anyway, I guess I'm right on the bus of denial with everyone else... Keep up your spirits everyone!
[This message has been edited by scylla (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
This concludes my incoherent post.
IP: Logged
As much as I like W/T fics no wait, LOVE W/T fics, I can't bring myself to read any of it right now. I feel like I'm betraying the series characters. This is such a confusing time. I've never cared about any tv characters as much as these two before.
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by theatremouse:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kendahl897:
[b] OK , don't bite my head off, but Bikkatt over at the Bronze is adamant that Emma Caulfield did not sign a contract for next season and that Amber did, similar to the one for this season. Goes on to say where he got the info, too. Also, I went back and read Wanda's spoilers concerning the BSD. The first one being 4th one's a charm, the second being that the one who dies will have a broken heart. Now if I'd just spent hours having make-up sex with Willow, the last thing I would be was broken-hearted. Is there anyone out there with the resources and contacts to look up the contract info?
[/B][/QUOTE] Ooooh! good point! (Hey, I'll take all the straw I can get at this point...) Lesse, there was the man who sold Jenny the Orb, who was killed by.. Dru, I think? The woman after that was killed by Spike In 'Lover's Walk', yes? And Mr. Bogarty, who was killed in the ep where Giles first starts thinking about owning the shop.... 1... 2... 3... Anya! Hey, I like Anya, but I'd rather it be her then Tara. Hell, as stated before, I'd rather it was *Buffy* then Tara... ('Tara, the Vampire Slayer' does have a certain ring to it, no?) ------------------
(the mouse got sudden glimmers of hope and a twinkle in the eye..... i know it wont last but i'm enoying this minute of brightness i just felt.
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
IP: Logged
Ange.
IP: Logged
------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
IP: Logged
I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
IP: Logged
also, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
IP: Logged
And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
IP: Logged
I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
IP: Logged
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:16 Robin take it elsewhere it is not the time, I am editing you. Do it one more time and you are out![This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: LoggedDr.GLesbian Gay Type Lover [This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:17 Robin, this is not "the BtVS board", in case you had not noticed. I love it when people apologize by adding insult to injury. Ah and English isn't my first language either.[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: LoggedEnigmaticDoll's Eye Crystal Willow and Tara, the charming witches...
I think it would make a great show!!
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:17 I like the idea of:Willow and Tara, the charming witches...
I think it would make a great show!!
IP: LoggedKarziaFloating Rose
All I ask is that folks continue to write T/W fiction, in spite of the spoilers, and in spite of Joss. Look at Xena, the show ended she died, the fanfaiction lived on. I have been reading the Virtual Seasons for Xena and in some cases they are better than the last TV season. We can and will live through this one.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:20 [QUOTE]So I shall hop on the Denialbus for a few hours and continue to work on the W/T fic that I have been doing for months and months now. I considered ditching it last night when I read this thread... But no. You know the beauty of fic? You have control of what happens - and I need that control right now. I just wish it was an immediatly happier fic that I could offer up...
All I ask is that folks continue to write T/W fiction, in spite of the spoilers, and in spite of Joss. Look at Xena, the show ended she died, the fanfaiction lived on. I have been reading the Virtual Seasons for Xena and in some cases they are better than the last TV season. We can and will live through this one.
I leave you all alone for two days and what happens? You end up on the menu!
People...I thought we covered this:
1) Joss loves Amber, Tara and W/T. She's been to his house numerous times. She has accompanied him (along with James Marsters) to awards shows. It is so obvious he likes her as a person and respects her as an actress; why would he kill off her character and banish her to the outer darkness. (Don't bring up Kristine Sutherland; the death of Joyce was a thematic necessity, sad as it was. Killing Tara off would be a huge shock, but then what? It makes no sense.) Remember how disappointed and even angry both Joss and Alyson were when Seth left? They obviously value their friendship with Amber, and this would jeopardize it
2) Joss and ME love to send out tidbits of disinformation and misdirection. He knows that we are waiting to jump on the slightest bit of water-cooler gossip and discuss it endlessly. He knows that we will rearrange schedules, blow off night school and set up multiple VCRs to make sure we do not miss this episode!
3) Amber loves the show, and would not want to sacrifice a fairly regular paycheck for the uncertainly of movies. Unless she's getting a helluva lot of offers (a la Seth Green) she has no financial incentive to leave. Right now, my little birds tell me it's Alyson whom the Flying CAA Monkeys are buzzing around, given APII. Amber just bought a house. Nuff Said.
Okay, kids, let's just ratchet it down a few notches. I know, it's not nice to hear stuff like this, but don't hold the funeral until we get the wildfeed. (Hey, that should be a tagline!)
Keep the faith, kids.
------------------
"How's that cramp doing, Spike? Why dontcha put some ice on it?"
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:21 Yikes!I leave you all alone for two days and what happens? You end up on the menu!
People...I thought we covered this:
1) Joss loves Amber, Tara and W/T. She's been to his house numerous times. She has accompanied him (along with James Marsters) to awards shows. It is so obvious he likes her as a person and respects her as an actress; why would he kill off her character and banish her to the outer darkness. (Don't bring up Kristine Sutherland; the death of Joyce was a thematic necessity, sad as it was. Killing Tara off would be a huge shock, but then what? It makes no sense.) Remember how disappointed and even angry both Joss and Alyson were when Seth left? They obviously value their friendship with Amber, and this would jeopardize it
2) Joss and ME love to send out tidbits of disinformation and misdirection. He knows that we are waiting to jump on the slightest bit of water-cooler gossip and discuss it endlessly. He knows that we will rearrange schedules, blow off night school and set up multiple VCRs to make sure we do not miss this episode!
3) Amber loves the show, and would not want to sacrifice a fairly regular paycheck for the uncertainly of movies. Unless she's getting a helluva lot of offers (a la Seth Green) she has no financial incentive to leave. Right now, my little birds tell me it's Alyson whom the Flying CAA Monkeys are buzzing around, given APII. Amber just bought a house. Nuff Said.
Okay, kids, let's just ratchet it down a few notches. I know, it's not nice to hear stuff like this, but don't hold the funeral until we get the wildfeed. (Hey, that should be a tagline!)
Keep the faith, kids.
------------------
"How's that cramp doing, Spike? Why dontcha put some ice on it?"
Herc has been pretty dead on this season and back in December he said:
"We will say that the 'not one of the Scoobies' description may be misleading. The doomed major character Coax referred to, regardless of that character’s Scooby status right now, may no longer be considered a Scooby by the time that character meets his or her unnatural and permanent demise."
When Herc wrote this, Willow and Tara were broken up. The break up is the only thing that we know of now that could render Tara "no longer a Scooby." We also know that the break up is OVER by the time the BSD happens. So even if Tara was "no longer a Scooby," she's back to being a Scooby by the time the BSD happens.
BUT, just to give a counterargument, we know that Herc thought the BSD would happen around the time of the wedding. Willow and Tara aren't back together at that time, so one could argue that she was "no longer a Scooby" at the time the BSD was to occur in Herc's timeline. But I still say that Tara is a Scooby even at that point in the series because she is doing research for Buffy, comforting Buffy, attending the birthday party, etc.
Anya, on the other hand, was still a Scooby when Herc wrote this spoiler, but if she goes V demon, she will "no longer be a Scooby" when the BSD happens.
Next, Herc refers to the BSD as "unnatural." While getting shot isn't the run of the mill death, it's certainly not "unnatural." I would think this would mean it has something to do with demons, though not necessarily of the "mystical energy" sort. But this one's debatable.
In addition, we've heard fairly detailed spoilers about Anya and Tara. Maybe all of them are true, hence the seemingly conflicting spoilers about who the BSD is.
I guess I see everyone's point about a reset being lame. BUT, if given the choice I'd choose a lame ending over Tara's death any day. Also, just because there might be some kind of "undo the wish" or time warp solution, doesn't necessarily mean it would be lame. I remember how lame many of us thought Willow resurrecting Buffy would be, but it ended up being fine because the writers focused not on the resurrection but on the effects of the resurrection on all the characters. So even though it seemed like a lame idea, they pulled it off with class (IMO).
Anyway, I guess I'm right on the bus of denial with everyone else... Keep up your spirits everyone!
[This message has been edited by scylla (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:23 These are really just awful spoilers. But I just can't believe it's the complete truth.Herc has been pretty dead on this season and back in December he said:
"We will say that the 'not one of the Scoobies' description may be misleading. The doomed major character Coax referred to, regardless of that character’s Scooby status right now, may no longer be considered a Scooby by the time that character meets his or her unnatural and permanent demise."
When Herc wrote this, Willow and Tara were broken up. The break up is the only thing that we know of now that could render Tara "no longer a Scooby." We also know that the break up is OVER by the time the BSD happens. So even if Tara was "no longer a Scooby," she's back to being a Scooby by the time the BSD happens.
BUT, just to give a counterargument, we know that Herc thought the BSD would happen around the time of the wedding. Willow and Tara aren't back together at that time, so one could argue that she was "no longer a Scooby" at the time the BSD was to occur in Herc's timeline. But I still say that Tara is a Scooby even at that point in the series because she is doing research for Buffy, comforting Buffy, attending the birthday party, etc.
Anya, on the other hand, was still a Scooby when Herc wrote this spoiler, but if she goes V demon, she will "no longer be a Scooby" when the BSD happens.
Next, Herc refers to the BSD as "unnatural." While getting shot isn't the run of the mill death, it's certainly not "unnatural." I would think this would mean it has something to do with demons, though not necessarily of the "mystical energy" sort. But this one's debatable.
In addition, we've heard fairly detailed spoilers about Anya and Tara. Maybe all of them are true, hence the seemingly conflicting spoilers about who the BSD is.
I guess I see everyone's point about a reset being lame. BUT, if given the choice I'd choose a lame ending over Tara's death any day. Also, just because there might be some kind of "undo the wish" or time warp solution, doesn't necessarily mean it would be lame. I remember how lame many of us thought Willow resurrecting Buffy would be, but it ended up being fine because the writers focused not on the resurrection but on the effects of the resurrection on all the characters. So even though it seemed like a lame idea, they pulled it off with class (IMO).
Anyway, I guess I'm right on the bus of denial with everyone else... Keep up your spirits everyone!
[This message has been edited by scylla (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Loggedwas recovering lurkerFloating Rose This concludes my incoherent post.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:23 I'm not one to say much, hence the user name, but I feel the time has come and I must communicate my feelings.This concludes my incoherent post.
IP: LoggedEpicurusCool Monster Fighter As much as I like W/T fics no wait, LOVE W/T fics, I can't bring myself to read any of it right now. I feel like I'm betraying the series characters. This is such a confusing time. I've never cared about any tv characters as much as these two before.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:24 Hold on a second, what the hell have I been watching this whole time? I believe you are mistaken anyway Robin, it's called "The Willow and Tara Show". At least, that's what it says on my VHS tapes.As much as I like W/T fics no wait, LOVE W/T fics, I can't bring myself to read any of it right now. I feel like I'm betraying the series characters. This is such a confusing time. I've never cared about any tv characters as much as these two before.
IP: LoggedGrimJackBlessed Wannabe quote:
Originally posted by theatremouse:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kendahl897:
[b] OK , don't bite my head off, but Bikkatt over at the Bronze is adamant that Emma Caulfield did not sign a contract for next season and that Amber did, similar to the one for this season. Goes on to say where he got the info, too. Also, I went back and read Wanda's spoilers concerning the BSD. The first one being 4th one's a charm, the second being that the one who dies will have a broken heart. Now if I'd just spent hours having make-up sex with Willow, the last thing I would be was broken-hearted. Is there anyone out there with the resources and contacts to look up the contract info?
[/B][/QUOTE] Ooooh! good point! (Hey, I'll take all the straw I can get at this point...) Lesse, there was the man who sold Jenny the Orb, who was killed by.. Dru, I think? The woman after that was killed by Spike In 'Lover's Walk', yes? And Mr. Bogarty, who was killed in the ep where Giles first starts thinking about owning the shop.... 1... 2... 3... Anya! Hey, I like Anya, but I'd rather it be her then Tara. Hell, as stated before, I'd rather it was *Buffy* then Tara... ('Tara, the Vampire Slayer' does have a certain ring to it, no?) ------------------
(the mouse got sudden glimmers of hope and a twinkle in the eye..... i know it wont last but i'm enoying this minute of brightness i just felt.
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
IP: Logged
Ange.
IP: Logged
------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
IP: Logged
I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
IP: Logged
also, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
IP: Logged
And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
IP: Logged
I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by theatremouse:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kendahl897:
[b] OK , don't bite my head off, but Bikkatt over at the Bronze is adamant that Emma Caulfield did not sign a contract for next season and that Amber did, similar to the one for this season. Goes on to say where he got the info, too. Also, I went back and read Wanda's spoilers concerning the BSD. The first one being 4th one's a charm, the second being that the one who dies will have a broken heart. Now if I'd just spent hours having make-up sex with Willow, the last thing I would be was broken-hearted. Is there anyone out there with the resources and contacts to look up the contract info?
[/B][/QUOTE] Ooooh! good point! (Hey, I'll take all the straw I can get at this point...) Lesse, there was the man who sold Jenny the Orb, who was killed by.. Dru, I think? The woman after that was killed by Spike In 'Lover's Walk', yes? And Mr. Bogarty, who was killed in the ep where Giles first starts thinking about owning the shop.... 1... 2... 3... Anya! Hey, I like Anya, but I'd rather it be her then Tara. Hell, as stated before, I'd rather it was *Buffy* then Tara... ('Tara, the Vampire Slayer' does have a certain ring to it, no?) ------------------
(the mouse got sudden glimmers of hope and a twinkle in the eye..... i know it wont last but i'm enoying this minute of brightness i just felt.
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
IP: Logged
Ange.
IP: Logged
------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
IP: Logged
I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
IP: Logged
also, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
IP: Logged
And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
IP: Logged
I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
IP: Logged
"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:25 Joss---"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
IP: LoggedAngeCool Monster Fighter Ange.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:26 The thing is that only Angel X gives us or gave us things, spoilers. All the others have their mouths close. So, what happened with them?Ange.
IP: LoggedSwaBlessed Wannabe ------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:32 I'm not doubting the spoilers from AngelX for a minute. If fact, I'm completely OK with them because of the way the show has always been.------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: LoggedKendahl897Doll's Eye Crystal IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:35 You know, whoever posted the comment about this being too much like when Frankie was shot on AMC is right. It's just so lame and not something I would expect from either Joss or Marti. They're better than that.IP: LoggedWiccagrrlGay Now! I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:42 Well, I too have had a chance to sleep on these spoilers, and the more I think about them, the more wrong this all seems. I just am having a hard time believing the same people who gave us Willow and Tara and this wonderful 'ship in the first place would take this storyline in this direction. There has to be more to all this than meets the eye. (please, please let this be the case)I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
IP: Loggedmorgan1707Willowhand IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:43 I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara. IP: LoggedGrimJackBlessed Wannabe quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:45quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:46 *Italiangirl steps confidently onto the Denial Bus*Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:46 I have a question, Why all the angast? Now what I mean by that is why are women who love women always so tortured?I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
also, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:47 Well i think - sorry, hope - that the Anya theory is correct. Yknow, the one where she changes things when she goes all vengance demon, and then dies herself. i mean, i like anya, but not as much as taraalso, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: LoggedSeanGaffneyDoll's Eye Crystal And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:52 Amen to those saying they don't want it to be Anya *or* Tara. I haven't posted to the thread today, mostly as I fear it may end up becoming a matter of choosing sides. I really, really don't want Anya to die, as I love her character arc. I really, really don't want Tara to die, as I love her character arc. I don't want to say 'well, I don't think it's going to be Anya' and have people leap on me. ^^;;And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
IP: Loggedwas recovering lurkerFloating Rose IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:57 ItalianGirl, your song was great. Thanks for the laugh, it was the first light-hearted moment I've had since yesterday.IP: LoggednetaBlessed Wannabe I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:57 Well I just sat here and read 21 plus pages of this and I really don't know what to say. I love W/T and I hope that Tara isn't killed for real. The only reason I watch Buffy is for W/T. So I am pretty sad about this and can only hope that it is a planted spoiler. So I guess I will have to wait and see what happens.I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 12:04 Wow.And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
IP: LoggedThespiaCool Monster Fighter I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 12:06 Hi, there. It's been a while.I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
by Dr.G » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:17 am
[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 10, 2002).]
by Enigmatic » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:17 am
Willow and Tara, the charming witches...
I think it would make a great show!!
by Karzia » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:20 am
All I ask is that folks continue to write T/W fiction, in spite of the spoilers, and in spite of Joss. Look at Xena, the show ended she died, the fanfaiction lived on. I have been reading the Virtual Seasons for Xena and in some cases they are better than the last TV season. We can and will live through this one.
by CaptMurdock » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:21 am
I leave you all alone for two days and what happens? You end up on the menu!
People...I thought we covered this:
1) Joss loves Amber, Tara and W/T. She's been to his house numerous times. She has accompanied him (along with James Marsters) to awards shows. It is so obvious he likes her as a person and respects her as an actress; why would he kill off her character and banish her to the outer darkness. (Don't bring up Kristine Sutherland; the death of Joyce was a thematic necessity, sad as it was. Killing Tara off would be a huge shock, but then what? It makes no sense.) Remember how disappointed and even angry both Joss and Alyson were when Seth left? They obviously value their friendship with Amber, and this would jeopardize it
2) Joss and ME love to send out tidbits of disinformation and misdirection. He knows that we are waiting to jump on the slightest bit of water-cooler gossip and discuss it endlessly. He knows that we will rearrange schedules, blow off night school and set up multiple VCRs to make sure we do not miss this episode!
3) Amber loves the show, and would not want to sacrifice a fairly regular paycheck for the uncertainly of movies. Unless she's getting a helluva lot of offers (a la Seth Green) she has no financial incentive to leave. Right now, my little birds tell me it's Alyson whom the Flying CAA Monkeys are buzzing around, given APII. Amber just bought a house. Nuff Said.
Okay, kids, let's just ratchet it down a few notches. I know, it's not nice to hear stuff like this, but don't hold the funeral until we get the wildfeed. (Hey, that should be a tagline!)
Keep the faith, kids.
------------------
"How's that cramp doing, Spike? Why dontcha put some ice on it?"
by scylla » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:23 am
Herc has been pretty dead on this season and back in December he said:
"We will say that the 'not one of the Scoobies' description may be misleading. The doomed major character Coax referred to, regardless of that character’s Scooby status right now, may no longer be considered a Scooby by the time that character meets his or her unnatural and permanent demise."
When Herc wrote this, Willow and Tara were broken up. The break up is the only thing that we know of now that could render Tara "no longer a Scooby." We also know that the break up is OVER by the time the BSD happens. So even if Tara was "no longer a Scooby," she's back to being a Scooby by the time the BSD happens.
BUT, just to give a counterargument, we know that Herc thought the BSD would happen around the time of the wedding. Willow and Tara aren't back together at that time, so one could argue that she was "no longer a Scooby" at the time the BSD was to occur in Herc's timeline. But I still say that Tara is a Scooby even at that point in the series because she is doing research for Buffy, comforting Buffy, attending the birthday party, etc.
Anya, on the other hand, was still a Scooby when Herc wrote this spoiler, but if she goes V demon, she will "no longer be a Scooby" when the BSD happens.
Next, Herc refers to the BSD as "unnatural." While getting shot isn't the run of the mill death, it's certainly not "unnatural." I would think this would mean it has something to do with demons, though not necessarily of the "mystical energy" sort. But this one's debatable.
In addition, we've heard fairly detailed spoilers about Anya and Tara. Maybe all of them are true, hence the seemingly conflicting spoilers about who the BSD is.
I guess I see everyone's point about a reset being lame. BUT, if given the choice I'd choose a lame ending over Tara's death any day. Also, just because there might be some kind of "undo the wish" or time warp solution, doesn't necessarily mean it would be lame. I remember how lame many of us thought Willow resurrecting Buffy would be, but it ended up being fine because the writers focused not on the resurrection but on the effects of the resurrection on all the characters. So even though it seemed like a lame idea, they pulled it off with class (IMO).
Anyway, I guess I'm right on the bus of denial with everyone else... Keep up your spirits everyone!
[This message has been edited by scylla (edited March 10, 2002).]
by was recovering lurker » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:23 am
This concludes my incoherent post.
by Epicurus » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:24 am
As much as I like W/T fics no wait, LOVE W/T fics, I can't bring myself to read any of it right now. I feel like I'm betraying the series characters. This is such a confusing time. I've never cared about any tv characters as much as these two before.
by GrimJack » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:25 am
quote:
Originally posted by theatremouse:
Originally posted by Kendahl897:
OK , don't bite my head off, but Bikkatt over at the Bronze is adamant that Emma Caulfield did not sign a contract for next season and that Amber did, similar to the one for this season. Goes on to say where he got the info, too. Also, I went back and read Wanda's spoilers concerning the BSD. The first one being 4th one's a charm, the second being that the one who dies will have a broken heart. Now if I'd just spent hours having make-up sex with Willow, the last thing I would be was broken-hearted. Is there anyone out there with the resources and contacts to look up the contract info?
yeah, soooo ummmmmm how many people have owned the magic box, and how many of them are dead?
(the mouse got sudden glimmers of hope and a twinkle in the eye..... i know it wont last but i'm enoying this minute of brightness i just felt.) Ooooh! good point! (Hey, I'll take all the straw I can get at this point...) Lesse, there was the man who sold Jenny the Orb, who was killed by.. Dru, I think? The woman after that was killed by Spike In 'Lover's Walk', yes? And Mr. Bogarty, who was killed in the ep where Giles first starts thinking about owning the shop....
1... 2... 3... Anya!
Hey, I like Anya, but I'd rather it be her then Tara. Hell, as stated before, I'd rather it was *Buffy* then Tara... ('Tara, the Vampire Slayer' does have a certain ring to it, no?)
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
IP: Logged
Ange.
IP: Logged
------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
IP: Logged
I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
IP: Logged
also, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
IP: Logged
IP: Logged
I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
IP: Logged
And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
IP: Logged
I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
IP: Logged
"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:25 Joss---"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
IP: LoggedAngeCool Monster Fighter Ange.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:26 The thing is that only Angel X gives us or gave us things, spoilers. All the others have their mouths close. So, what happened with them?Ange.
IP: LoggedSwaBlessed Wannabe ------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:32 I'm not doubting the spoilers from AngelX for a minute. If fact, I'm completely OK with them because of the way the show has always been.------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: LoggedKendahl897Doll's Eye Crystal IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:35 You know, whoever posted the comment about this being too much like when Frankie was shot on AMC is right. It's just so lame and not something I would expect from either Joss or Marti. They're better than that.IP: LoggedWiccagrrlGay Now! I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:42 Well, I too have had a chance to sleep on these spoilers, and the more I think about them, the more wrong this all seems. I just am having a hard time believing the same people who gave us Willow and Tara and this wonderful 'ship in the first place would take this storyline in this direction. There has to be more to all this than meets the eye. (please, please let this be the case)I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
IP: Loggedmorgan1707Willowhand IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:43 I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara. IP: LoggedGrimJackBlessed Wannabe quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:45quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:46 *Italiangirl steps confidently onto the Denial Bus*Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:46 I have a question, Why all the angast? Now what I mean by that is why are women who love women always so tortured?I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
also, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:47 Well i think - sorry, hope - that the Anya theory is correct. Yknow, the one where she changes things when she goes all vengance demon, and then dies herself. i mean, i like anya, but not as much as taraalso, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
IP: LoggedSeanGaffneyDoll's Eye Crystal And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:52 Amen to those saying they don't want it to be Anya *or* Tara. I haven't posted to the thread today, mostly as I fear it may end up becoming a matter of choosing sides. I really, really don't want Anya to die, as I love her character arc. I really, really don't want Tara to die, as I love her character arc. I don't want to say 'well, I don't think it's going to be Anya' and have people leap on me. ^^;;And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
IP: Loggedwas recovering lurkerFloating Rose IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:57 ItalianGirl, your song was great. Thanks for the laugh, it was the first light-hearted moment I've had since yesterday.IP: LoggednetaBlessed Wannabe I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 11:57 Well I just sat here and read 21 plus pages of this and I really don't know what to say. I love W/T and I hope that Tara isn't killed for real. The only reason I watch Buffy is for W/T. So I am pretty sad about this and can only hope that it is a planted spoiler. So I guess I will have to wait and see what happens.I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 12:04 Wow.And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
IP: LoggedThespiaCool Monster Fighter I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
IP: Logged
posted March 10, 2002 12:06 Hi, there. It's been a while.I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
by Kendahl897 » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:25 am
"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere. Amber Benson and Alyson Hanigan have such great chemistry: they're so great together, and they're very romantic together. We have terrible, terrible things to do to them because they are on my show, so needless to say, horrible things will happen-but as a couple, I think they work really well. As for Amber, even if she weren't going out with Willow, I think she's become a big part of the heart of the show."
Just something to think about.
by Ange » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:26 am
Ange.
by Swa » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:32 am
------------------
---Swa
[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 10, 2002).]
by Kendahl897 » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:35 am
by Wiccagrrl » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:42 am
I guess the spoilers could be misinformation (not by AngelX, obviously, but on ME's part), or something will happen to change things later. We will still have two eps after this, so it's possible. My problem with the whole reset idea, though, is that it just seems so out of place with the whole theme of the season, which has been very much about dealing with consequences and just life. How does "Ok, let's try this again" fit in?
At this point, I'm feeling a whole lot of conflicting emotions. Mostly, I'm confused. It just doesn't make sense to me, doesn't smell right. Gonna wait and see how this plays out. But I am kinda feeling like yes, we are being played.
by morgan1707 » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:43 am
by GrimJack » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:45 am
quote:
Originally posted by morgan1707:
I for one don't want to see anyone die. It's just senseless, and that goes for Anya as well as Tara.
Amen.
------------------
You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...
by Italiangirl » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:46 am
Hi everyone...
I too was devastated by the news brought to us by AngelX. Let my start by saying to AngelX, you handled the spoiler info you had with grace and kindness, and without glee. For that, I thank you. That said, I have to say I absolutely %100 percent do not believe that Tara will die. Not only because I love Tara, and I love Willow and Tara, but because it does not fall in line with the progression of the story thus far this season AND it does not fall in line with everything Joss, Marti, Amber and Aly have said about Willow and Tara up to now. Joss loves Amber. Joss loves Tara. Joss loves Willow and Tara. Think about Tara's character:
She grew up in a house where she was denied feelings of safety, comfort and love due to a fabricated story implemented by her family in order to control her. She definately endured years of emotional abuse and I believe physical abuse; she carried around horrible feelings of shame and axiety for being a demon for 21 YEARS; she developed a stutter and a bad case of social anxiety disorder, and remained completely alone and isolated from any love and positive attention for 20 YEARS! All of this was true until Willow came on the scene.
Throughout season 4, Tara and Willow build a relationship and Tara begins to unlearn her identity of victimhoood. She starts to know a little happiness. In season 5, she is basking in Willowlove yet still dealing with shyness, feelings of insecurity, and the desire to fit in.
After Family, she can FINALLY allow herself moments of complete happiness, without anything hanging over her head. Then, a few months later, the brainsuck. More horror for Tara. In The Gift her brain is restored. So, from The Gift through oh, say, Tabula Rasa in season 6, Tara, as a character, gets to experience happiness and security.
That is roughly six months out of 22 years that she gets to be happy, safe, and secure. Then, the breakup with Will. By now Tara is much more self confident, and sure of herself. It hurts her to break up with Will, but it pleases her to find that she had a strength of character she was not aware of. She begins to develop a stronger relationship with the other scoobies, namely Buffy. All signs on the show point to a big lesbian makeup.
Then, Tara is randomly shot and killed. No warning. No big face off. No heartfelt, tearful closure between she and Willow as she is dying. Nada. A cold, sensational shooting.
Did anyone ever see that movie The Spitfire Grill? I remember seeing that movie in the theatre, and sitting in my chair when it was done unable to stop sobbing. It was tragic to me because the main character had suffered unimaginable abuse in her life, and gone to jail for defending herself, she got out, and when she finally got to have 10 minutes of happiness and joy, she died. It was tragic.
I see a parallel here if the death rumors are true. I just don't believe Joss would allow this. He loves Tara. Looking at the evolution of her life, I can't believe he would be this cruel to a character he loves.
Also, hasn't Marti and Joss stated at different times throughout this season that there would not be a big bad of the season? That the theme was growing up and facing adulthood and the loss of childhood? Doesn't that shoot down any and all of the Willow as Dark Phoenix theories flying around? I know it did for me when I read those interviews.
So, all this leads me to my stance of disbelief. If I am proved wrong, I will eat my words, but not without a fight. Until then, I will reside in the Red Herring camp.
So without further adieu...
*Italiangirl shifts slightly to reveal what it is she has been hiding behind her back throughout her post...it's a radio!*
I have a little in-bus entertainment for all my favorite kitties. I have composed a little song about our situation. Apologies to the mods - I know our creative efforts are supposed to go on the pens board, but I think our spoiled kitties, myself included, could use a little cheering up. Apologies if it is only funny to me...I cranked it out ASAP after reading 20 pages of raw kitten grief, and admittedly my sense of humor is not at its best!
*Italiangirl hits the play button on the radio and the opening bars of "Like A Virgin" by Madonna can be heard throughout the bus and the kittendom. She whips a microphone out of her backpack and sings...
We'll make it through the wilderness
Somehow we'll make it through
Won't think Tara's death is real
Until we have proof...
We said yay! Phobes said HEY!
But Joss knew, made our girls gay anyway
And that made us feel
Yeah that maaaaaaade us feel
Swoony and cool
Like a lesbian
Touched for the very first time
Like a leesssssbian
Cause now the gay girls
Would get their due
So we gave them all our love, yeah
Our fears were fading fast
Phobes said it was all a hoax
But Joss said their love would last
So through the brainsuck, and betrayed trust
We were strong, yeah we persevered
Cause their love was true
Yeah their looooooove was true
Yet the rumors continued
But they're lesbians
And neither of them's dying
Yeah they're leeeeessssbians
So take your rumors
And stick them in your eye
BWA HA HA!
She'll be fine, no one's dying
She'll be Will's, till the end of time
Cause they always find
Yeah they aaaalways find
Each other in good time...
Like a lesbian
Loved for the very first time
Like two lesbians
With their heartbeats
Intertwined
Like a lesbian, oooooh, ooooooh
Like a lesbian
But could the rumor be true?
Yes we're panicked, yes we're grieving,
yeah we're sad and blue
Oh Oh Oh Oh Oh Whoa Oh Oh Oh
Oh Oh
But we're stronger, and we'll manage
And we'll say pooh-pooh
Ohhhhhh oohhhhhhhh
We know it's not truuueeee
Oh Joss, where are you...
Like a lesbian
We know your love is true
Like a lesbian
Can't you hear our hearts beat....
by Karzia » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:46 am
I have read a lot of Lesbian fiction over the last few years, starting with Xena/Voyager on the net progressing to Uber and then on to mainstream hardcopy, from PWP smutt to well ploted murder mysters where you have to search for the subtext. The most common theme seems to be pain. Why can't anyone show loving lesbian relasionships without all the pain. doesn't anyone ever live happly ever after any more?
Now don't get me wrong, I am not a tortured idealist ( well ok maybe I am ), but my point is, pain need not be the primary motivation in same gender relasionships. Granted what doesn't kill us does indead make us stronger, but really now. In the course of my now 16 years with the same women I have had my share of ups and downs but for the most part it has been happy not angast ridden.
------------------
Ad astea per asta
by amberisadamngoddess » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:47 am
also, 4th one's a charm...how many magic box owners have died????
1 - the one Dru killed
2 - the one Spike killed
3 - the one Harmony's gang killed
4 - Anya???????
hmmmm
[This message has been edited by WillTara (edited March 10, 2002).]
by SeanGaffney » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:52 am
And I still think the only reason someone WOULD die in the first place is if an actor desired to leave the show. As I think death is just not what any of the Buffy characters are headed towards, from what we've seen. No, not even Spike.
So, sittin' here on the bus, eating my pie, and holding up the No Tara, No Anya, No Scooby Death sign. ^_^
--SG
by was recovering lurker » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:57 am
by neta » Sun Mar 10, 2002 9:57 am
I just want to say that I really enjoy coming to the Kitten and Pens site. I've laughed alot and learned so much from this site and the people who are post here.
Hugs to all.
by Walker » Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:04 am
And to think I was so happy earlier in the year when Amber was talking about buying a house. I thought, "no way would she be doing that if she knew she was leaving the show.". I be dumb. Sod it. I'm on the denial bus until it actually happens. I'm so glad this board exists at a time like this. My humblest thanks to the mods.
by Thespia » Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:06 am
I've been reading almost all the posts in this thread, since yesterday and I think there's been a slight change in the mood. I agree with those that say that this is way too strange. I mean, it could really be true, but there's the possibity it isn't. I've never seen you guys accept something as true so quickly. What happened to the kitten skepticism? I know AngelIX is reliable, but That does not mean information cannot be distorted along the way. Maybe her sources are wrong this time.
I know it's a big 'maybe', but still...
by whiz » Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:12 am
One thing though... Wanda said that the BSD will be a female who dies from saving her "LOVED" one.
Her "LOVED" one..... if it were Tara, wouldn't her "LOVED" one be Willow? But in Angel's spoiler said that Warren intended to shoot Buffy..... I don't think Tara loves Buffy that much...
Return to Novogate Backup Kitten
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests