Lesbians Live and Love don't listen to ME

[LimboLass]

All I can do is say, "Yes yes! Listen to what all the other posters said!"

If I'd had more lesbian icons to look at and admire as a teen, I might never have made some nigh-life-destroying decisions (like trying to be straight) that I'm *still* recovering from.

The depiction of lesbianism I clung to almost exclusively for something like ten years: a three-panel spread in the comic book series _Camelot 3000_, where Tristan (reincarnated as a woman) and Isolde have a romp in their rose-bedecked bed (fully clothed), after Tristan has spent the entire series trying to become male again and failing.

I didn't have anything else. Sad. Except, of course, I went and fell in love with Tasha Yar, because she was cute, butch, and there was a vanishingly small possibility that she might be... oh, but then there was that tar monster. Never mind.

When things were falling apart with my last boyfriend, the woman destined to become my fabulous-sexy-marvelous Goddess of a partner started handing me books to read. _On Strike Against God_ by Joanna Russ. _Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit_ by Jeannette Winterson. _Queen of Swords_ by Judy Grahn. I devoured this "lesbian propaganda" (as the soon-to-be-ex called it in one of his loudest, longest rants of that month, while his boyfriend sat on his lap) and came out of those books a stronger person -- strong enough to really leave.

What the hell might I have accomplished seven years earlier if there had been *any* lesbians in the popular media that I consumed on a regular basis back then?

Sigh. And there's still part of me that aches to be able to watch a series, see a movie, pick up a book, whatever, where I can find women loving women in a way I can trust. In a genre I enjoy.

*kick kick KICK* Mutant Enemy.

LL

[Hugin]

Glitches post reflects what saddens and angers me the most. As a straight person, I reveled in the idea that W/T could serve as a bridge to understanding for viewers. As people got more used to W/T, as Tara became more and more popular, as more and more "average" (I know, yucky word, but you know what I mean) fans started seeing what the earliest Kittens saw, I felt so proud. Here, my favorite 'ship on my favorite show, doing something really groundbreaking and meaningful, really opening eyes.

We can't let that go. No matter how terribly ME has botched things, they can't go back in time and make people uncaring again. They can't take back understanding. No one can ever view this series and fail to see how good it was. For a while anyway.

I've met wonderful people because of it. The world is, in some tiny way, better for it, I'm convinced of that, no matter how stupid ME is. W/T transcends thier best efforts to ruin it. I have to believe that.

-len

[Gerard]

I have a suggestion. This topic could, for a while at least, be added to the 'sticky' Topics so it can easlily be found by newcomers.

Where Ilive in Australia we are seeing Entropy tomorrow. It would be reasonable to expect when SR arrives there will be a whole new wave of people needing support and the sort of wisdom the Kitty offers, which definitely includes this trhead.

G

[friskylez]

I wrote this letter to the editors over at sci fi magazine, in regard to the article on "Lesbians Where art Thou"..The editors asked readers whether it was important for film and media to "worry" about how gays and lesbians are depicted in film and media:

"Absolutely film and media should care, not worry, how lesbians and gays are depicted..We are a part of society, if movies and tv shows choose not to show real, happy, healthy gay/lesbian relationships that last, it will not change the fact that we exist and those types of relationships exist...Perceptions of the gay/lesbian community are for the most part stereotypical, how will they ever change unless someone has the balls to stand up and show who we really are and how we really live...

And im not talking the out every nite, looking to get laid way people think we live...
We have mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, children, we own business', go to work everyday just like everyone else...We pay our bills, worry about the future, whether we will find that "one"....Responsible, law abiding, voting, citizens..Yes we party and have fun, just like "regular folks", yes we get into trouble, just like "regular folks", yes we have arguements with our loved ones and partners, just like "regular folks"...We are no different in the way we live, just who we love..

Joss Whedon the Producer and creator of Buffy the Vampier Slayer took a chance and showed Willow and Tara as a young, happy, loving couple..They had their ups and downs, but they still loved each other, soulmates they were.....Then Joss chose to end that in Season 6 for a story arc that could have been furthered a hundred different ways..The kittens on the Kitten board speculated those ways, some wonderful ideas, but Joss chose to kill Tara, Willows soulmate and partner because he could...

I say BS to that, it could have been done differently, but ego got in the way and Joss ended one of the most realistic, beautiful same sex relationships ever seen on TV or in movies for that matter...Gays, lesbians, heterosexuals, young, old, men and women fell in love with W/T and their relationship...They saw beyond the fact that it was two people of the same sex, a tribute to the two actresses who played W/T..

The two actresses Amber Benson and Alyson Hannigan had wonderful chemistry together, that doesnt happen often and never would have worked with two different actors...They brought the characters to life with the little nuances, the touches, the looks, not only the written words..No one is saying anyone at ME or even Joss is homophobic, just trying to figure out why they had to kill the lesbian to further a story arc that could have been done any number of ways..Et tu brute' ??"

[tabularasa]

Thank you Xita for this thread. You and all of the people who have posted in this thread, whether gay or straight, are so awesome. In fact, the entire kitten community is awesome.

I want to give a shout out to all of you out there who are young and still trying to find your place in the world. There is nothing wrong with you or the way you love. You are beautful for who you are and you matter to me simply because you breathe the air that I do.

Here at the kitten you will find people who are like you and will be there for you if you need support of anykind. Remember that. Post here...IM me or email me whatever...ok.

Peace and love to all of you.

[Zahir al Daoud]

This is kinda in response to Bob's posting. But more, its a response to ... well... everything.

Right now I'm writing an original story about a pair of sisters. It is a space opera kinda thingee. And one of theses sisters is gay. She's gay because it is important to the story, to the conflicts with her family and home, especially her sister.

Now, Daphne is finding a special someone very early in the story. And during the course of it all they are going to go through hell. Don't have the whole itineray worked out yet but it will definitely wind its way through the infernal regions.

Yet I can tell you right now what won't happen. I'm not going to kill them. Either one. Sick, wounded, in serious need of medical attention--sure. But I am tired of dead lesbians. Neither one will turn evil. Which isn't to say they won't make mistakes or stray into ethically gray areas. But evil? No. And I'm not going to create a big love story with these two people (whom I like, even love, more and more) only to kill them off.

Because lesbians don't die? Or because that's not a valid story? Nope. Because its a friggin cliche! Worse, its a cliche that hurts folks.

My intention is *not* to write The Great Lesbian Love Story. What I'm aiming for is a space opera I would enjoy reading and hopefully others will like as well. But there's something called responsibility, and damned if I can see how that conflicts with good story-telling.

Wanted to get that off my chest.

[Ghostwriter]

Xita, thanks for this thread and thanks to all of you who posted your thoughts, your stories and your pain. I have been trying not to let what happened get to me, but unfortunately I find I am unable to do so. I thought that the pain would lessen and I could once more find enjoyment in the world around me, but I find I can't. This hurt more than I thought it could. But reading this tread has shown me that I am not alone, and for that I will be forever thankful. So I intend to now go outside my house, live my life and say proudly that yes I am a lesbian, I love another a woman, I make a life with another woman. ME you won't win in the end. That I can guarantee.

[WebWarlock]

Let me throw my 2 cents in about this. Cause that is what I do!

Xita, thank you so much for this thread as well. I grew up in a family that did not make a big deal of any type of relationship, gay or straight. It was understood that we would all be straight, but we were [b:571ab66381] never[/b:571ab66381] to judge anyone on the basis of who they loved. So we were not all talking about it, but my parents encouraged all of us to find our own ways.
To see Willow and Tara on the screen was in a word, wonderful. This was a love story to me. A wonderful love story of two people that despite every thing against them, despite living in the worst place on the planet, found each other and true love. That is until it was all shown to be a lie.

Joss Whedon has screwed up so bad with this that I can't even imagine what they hell he was thinking. It is alien to me. I just don't understand it.

But thank you again Xita for granting everyone this space and this board to try to find some good left in what we all saw.

Warlock

[urnofosiris]

I think we have been very lucky to have Willow and Tara *despite* of and not *because* of Joss Whedon. We have Alyson and Amber to thank for them and some good -unfortunately now past- writing as well, but mostly Amber and Aly. They made them come to live and made them into something Joss Whedon never could have comprehended and never will be able to: they made them the image of love, true love. I am not watching them now, but I will again, I won't let that be taken from me as well, they really are forever, meant to be. That however does not make the betrayal and the destruction of them on that show by it's creator something I will ever forgive or forget.

[slayer747]

[quote:54666bd79c][b:54666bd79c][i:54666bd79c]Quote:[/i:54666bd79c][/b:54666bd79c]

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As a straight person, I reveled in the idea that W/T could serve as a bridge to understanding for viewers.

---

[/quote:54666bd79c]

now, as a gay person... i just pray that there will be more people like you.

screw whedon!

[Vampire Willow]

Wow. i really have been gone a long time, haven't I? I missed this ENTIRE thread! Well, back to the topic at hand though *clears throat* I am a bisexual and i get so much crap for it that it isn't even funny. The Kitten is my sactuary, where I can talk about "this girl I like" or my W/T fantasys without being bombarded with threats and insults. I love you all to death and I, frankly, think that ME is full of shit! (excuse my French there...) I just wanted to add a few little things that i forgot yesterday, cool? Well, a few months ago, when I came out I got death threats and had my nose and arm broken, not fun at all. It is hard for a 13 year-old to go through, you know? I want everyone to feel safe, it has become an obsession of mine ever since I was beat-up. I want everyone to know that I am here for everyone! Espcially the younger members of the board, I have been there and done that when it comes to probs and fears in comming out. I didn't tell my dad until just recently. My mother figured it out on her own, but it didn't make it easier. I want people to live, love, and be happy, never be sad. So if anyone even needs someone to talk with, I am always here. Everything you need to get in touch with me is in my profile. I love you all more than life itself! *kisses from the Vamp*

~Tash xoxo

[slayer747]

nice to hear that vamp willow.
uhm, suddenly i don't know what to say next...