Entertainment Weekly Assorted Buffy Articles

[urnofosiris]

Oh that we can, they worry more about cheapening death than they do about the fact that they've cheapened life, love, the characters and the very show itself.
Logic, logic, wherefor art thou logic?

[helpful information perha]

Ifxita/DrG etal here whose words Ive synthesized into the reply below - do you two mind if we lift your verbiage?

If not, may I suggest folks fax/email this to UPN, FOX, ME and EW

feedback@UPN.com

Gail Berman
Fox Broadcasting Entertainment President
Fox Headquarters
10201 West Pico Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA. 90035
310-369-1433 (fax)

Dawn Tarnofsky-Ostroff, President
United Paramount Network
11800 Wilshire Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA, 90025

Joss Whedon, President
Mutant Enemy, Inc.
1800 Stewart Street
Second Floor
Santa Monica, CA 90404

letters@ew.com

And post it where ever else they wish
P.S. thanks for the catchs, I love writing by committee! - do we have them all now?
___________________


TO:
RE: EWs The Crass Menagerie

In response to:
The Crass Menagerie

Foul language. Raunchy sex. Gore galore. On TV? Suddenly there seems to be very little that's off-limits on the tube
by Nicholas Fonseca

www.ew.com/ew/report/0,61...ex,00.html

Quote:

[Though rules have relaxed considerably, most networks still employ standards and practices to screen out material seen as potentially objectionable, Buffy exec producer Marti Noxon says UPN censors have more qualms about Willow's romance with Tara (Amber Benson) than the show's campy violence or ravenous (straight) sex scenes- including that racy interlude last winter in which Gellar's slayer offered oral pleasure to Spike. Laughs Noxon, "Yeah, that one was pretty dirty."]

Reply:

While Mutant Enemy may claim to have treated their lesbian characters and couple no different than their heterosexual characters and couples, Nicholas Fonseca article "The Crass Menagerie" makes it obvious that this is blatantly false.

Necrophilia, oral sex, rape, degradation of women (via doggie style sex in public or sex in alleys next to dumpsters), S&M, grotesque torture and cold blooded vigilante murder meets UPNs standards for 8pm family hour entertainment.

Physical expressions of love (or allusions to physical expression of love) between soul-mates who just happen to both be women doesnt.

This is equality for the lesbian couple in Mr Whedon and Ms Noxons eyes?

What network is going to finally lay down a common standard for all their sex scenes, homosexual as well as heterosexual?

It will be a LONG time before we find out now, seeing as Mr Whedon decided he'd rather kill the lesbian in the name of equal treatment than try and make sure they actually were being treated equally.

Water seeks its own level, seems Mutant Enemy has found its level on UPN, home of the WWF/E - Telling indeed.

[Sassette]

Y'know, if ME is really concerned about the smoking message, and only let EVIL characters do it, perhaps they should stop smoking crack? Because it's clear they do ... what kind of message does >that< send?

-Sass

[emma peel]

Marti, you make me feel very ill.

Marti, to you.

Janice

[Elianna]

HIP, if you send your letter, you might want to re-read your second paragraph, and change ally's to alleys.

-Elianna

[BBOvenGuy]

And vigilantly to vigilante.

[molsongrrrl]

and elusions to allusions

[urnofosiris]

Go for it.

[xita]

not a big deal so I decided to post it here. novelty act pointed this out to me and i realized i had the mag at home so I am typing it up.

Some interview with joss about the upcoming dvd.

interesting thoughts:
[quote:baff7448fd][b:baff7448fd][i:baff7448fd]Quote:[/i:baff7448fd][/b:baff7448fd]

---

Why did she (Jenny Calendar) have to die?

Because somebody had to die. We had to prove that Angel really was the badass we were saying he was. So we had to take away someone we loved - and we looooved her.

But she was superhot. Can't you bring her back to life?

[sighs] Don't I wish.

---

[/quote:baff7448fd]

Now about Willow, part of an article on character flaws, the good guys do bad things. [quote:baff7448fd][b:baff7448fd][i:baff7448fd]Quote:[/i:baff7448fd][/b:baff7448fd]

---

[b:baff7448fd]

Alyson Hannigan's Willow on Buffy the Vampire Slayer captures doofus-villain Warren (Adam Busch), whom she holds responsible for the death of her lover, and flays him alive (or as Anya put it, "she killed him, ripped him apart, and bloodied up the forest for doing it" .

By contrast, Buffy creator Joss Whedon and this past season's guiding hand, Marti Noxon, are, as a young character in their scripts might say, all about the remorse thing. "Willow has killed a human being - how will she be able to live withe herself?" asked Anthony Stewart Head's Giles, and indeed, that act was truly shocking for being committed so purposefully, so vaalierly, by a character many of us cherish. How Whedon and Co. convince us of Willow's redemption is a huge obstacle to overcome next season as far as I am concerned - it's gonna take more than a spray of counterspelling pixe dust or a well -written speech to redeem she who fans are already calling the Dark Willow.[/b:baff7448fd]

---

[/quote:baff7448fd]

I have to tell you something, I know we were insistent on not calling Willow, Evil Willow but Dark Magic Willow and it is good to see it stuck. And well ME won't give them that because they'll all resolve without jail, which is what this story calls for.

[supermus]

I always figured that vamps do have blood flow, not just a heart beat. I mean, they're dead, but somehow they manage to walk and talk so a mystical blood flow is not out of the realm of logic. Without a blood flow to transport alcohol to various parts of the body, how can spike get drunk? How could angel have gotten drugged in "Eternity"(Angel S1)?

[Kendahl897]

Xita,
I thought they killed Jenny Calendar off bc the actress that portrayed her wanted to leave the show...they could have killed almost anyone else, a student, etc and would have had the same effect. Joss is full of shit

[helpful information perha]

willow didn't just kill warren she also killed rack, sucked him right into mummydom (which by the way reminds me, why wasn't giles killed when she sucked the magic from him?)

so what does sending her off to england for a little rehab accomplish? besides telling kids that scoobies get special treatment.

willow shoud be rotting in a cell next to faith

anything less is bull

[hilarita]

im sure they'll do some handwaving and make the whole thing go away, without any reasonable explanation, because thats about the state they are at.

continuity? not so much.

[helpful information perha]

since some folks here are from europe I'd appreciate their persepective on this.

I post with a brit who knows I'm upset with the "cult hit buffy" and the way willow and tara were handled this year (the violent way they killed tara's body and willows soul)

They just sent me a piece about violent "cult" US flicks and how they are being blamed for an out break of teen violence and murder in europe.

French link murders to cult film
'Scream' blamed for outbreak of teenage violence
Paul Webster in Paris
Sunday June 9, 2002
www.observer.co.uk/intern...41,00.html

having read this piece, I'm not going to debate the 'violent media causes violent kids' issue. I'll leave that to the experts to figure out

but I can't help wonder what the US must be coming across to the world lke given the media we export

and if these closing episodes of buffy are being received in europe as giving tacit approval to punishing the lesbians?

should we expect a backlash from europe with regards to exports of american pop media?

any european news pieces on the "lesbian cliche" ? or is it a cliche in europe?

[urnofosiris]

Well, after reading that, it is hard to keep saying that what we see in the media does not influence our actions, be it for the better or worse.

[quote:140e59924c][b:140e59924c][i:140e59924c]Quote:[/i:140e59924c][/b:140e59924c]

---

Dave Grossman, an American expert on the psychology and physiology of killing, has found that repetition, desensitisation and escalation reduced the normal human unwillingness to kill. He said: 'We have raised a generation of barbarians who have learnt to associate violence with pleasure. All the time in movie theatres, when there is bloody violence, the young people laugh and cheer and keep right on eating popcorn and drinking soda.'

---

[/quote:140e59924c]

Go Joss. You added your piece to the pie. Too bad it tastes like shit.
As for a lesbian cliche in Europe, I can't speak for all of Europe, I cannot even speak for the Netherlands, darn it, as I have hardly watched any Dutch movies or series in the last years. Gay people can get married, but whether they are always treated equally I do not know, but taking a wild guess, even in this country I think not. But this is about the media.

Well like I said, I hardly watch television and Dutch programs. But a few years ago I did. Thinking back I don't recall a gay/lesbian cliche, in fact, with one exception, I don't recall watching gay/lesbian characters at all, not sure whether that is an improvement you know. Maybe some of the other Dutch kitties know better. I only recall a lesbian character on one of our soaps I used to watch, I remember 2 years or so ago her rolling around on the bed with her lover going at it like there is no tomorrow, this at 7pm in the evening. No big deal. I stopped watching though. I think she did break up and got a kid by her stepbrother (no idea how they did that, heh) and she did get a new gf, oh well, basically I am clueless here.

Hardly any gays/lesbians in the media, although the last edition of Big Brother was won by a lesbian, and a cute one as well.
Okay, so that was not relevant probably. Ah and when I say hardly any gays/lesbians in the media, I mean as characters on a show, when it comes to real life performers, presentors, artists, singers etc., there is plenty of gayness to go around.

As for BtVS, we are a whole season behind, but Willow and Tara are no big deal, just like the show itself is no big deal here. I think season 7 will be no big deal here either, but I am sure the BBC will have a fit, considering they cut the bed snuggle from Family and Willow calling Oz a "spaz" in NMR. Not much of season 7 will be left to show. "The Bargaining" may consist of no more than the opening theme and the end credits. However I doubt they would make an issue of Tara getting killed. Just another wild guess.

[Lindy]

Erm.. uhm.. should I speak now, being German and all?

Well, I don't watch many .. no wait, I don't watch any german TV shows, because they all suck.. oh boy do they suck.
I know there is this weekly series about a women's prison and people keep telling me that there are a lot of lesbians in jail, getting it on frequently. I just have never seen it properly and everytime I try I get so bored after 5 minutes that I turn it off. But the show is obviously pretty popular, since it is on for years already.

Besides that there was a lesbian couple on a daily soap once, but they left, because the actress wanted to leave.

So.. like DrG I am pretty clueless if the lesbian clich can be seen on german TV, and me, living in my Berlin bubble of happiness.. can't even judge the general take of gays in the rest of Germany. It can't be that bad, since a lot of our entertainers are openly gay and nobody is making an issue out of it.

I think I am rambling.. I will stop now, hee.

[WillowSpiritus]

I have seen some Dutch shows with a lesbian story line but it really wasnt a big deal. What bothered me about these stories was that after this fling the person would end up with a guy again. For the Dutch i will give the example of Laura in GTST. Why make her fall in love with woman and then never talk about it again. It would be nice to have a person on tv in a real loving lesbian relationship! Oh wait we had that and then they trew it away. Buffy really isnt a big deal overhere so i am glad to have this board to talk about it. Oh and i have to agree that Sandy from Big brother really is cute

[Kieli]

Heh, I wonder, Lindy, if the programme you are referring to is called [b:bfca1329d1] Prisoner: Cell Block H[/b:bfca1329d1]? The premise of that show was mostly about the women in the cell block, but only three or four of the characters were lesbian. They were rotated in and out of the series sporadically so I have no idea which years German TV might be showing, if at all.

Toni

[helpful information perha]

thanks all for the information. would sound like there are not many lesbians represented on european tv either. again making W/T important if for no other reason than visibility

[Killin Joke]

Hmm, in Belgium it's not much better as far as fictional characters are concerned. I remember someone vaguely noticing a lesbian character in some stupid soap (Thuis ?) Anyway, so not my cup of coffee, so I didn't even bother to watch the crap. Maybe there are more and I'm just missing them because the daily eps don't interest me whatsoever.

There's only one flemish show I followed and it was "Flikken". Maybe the Dutchies know it (they showed it on NL2 or something, equivalent to "Spangen"). Starring two female cops among others, with the names of Britt and Tony (usually a man's name). The actress who played Tony (Joke DeVynck) left the show (baby on the way, born by now, I guess) to move on the theater. Anyway, from the beginning I hoped they'd get together (silly Xena subtext made me a sucker) but of course no such thing. Apparently our stupid tv-audience isn't ready for it.

In real life we score a bit better. I can remember two lesbians winning two shows. Marrianne Dupon won "De Mol" (The Mole -> dunno in how many lands they adapted it) and is now dating one of our Flemish singers, etc: Yasmine.

A young lesbian couple won "Datecaf": programme where the couples need to be formed, they were challenged to do things, you know the drill... Anyway, pretty morronish, if it wasn't for the lesbian girl spicen things up: kind of a curly redhead. Bumped into another gal she liked and let the fun begin. I was keeping my fingers crossed for 'm, rooting for 'm to win, but I was sorta amazed they did. They had competition of a starlet couple: hunky darkhaired guy, cute brunette... It was done with a voting system, which made me kinda proud of everyone who stood up for them

[Lindy]

Well, the show is a German production. It's called "Hinter Gittern - Der Frauenknast" or something similar. The translation would be "Behind Bars - Jail for Women".

I think I should watch that show.. just so that I at least know what I am talking about, heh.

[urnofosiris]

Well either we need to watch more TV or gays and lesbians are vastly underrepresented on European TV as well. Helpfull Information is right, Willow and Tara are so very important, if only to show there are lesbians walking amongst us and they can have happy relationships. Well they can, unlike what Mr Whedon may think.

Honestly, I have been trying to remember, but Willow and Tara are the *only* real example I can think of. They put me in touch with this board, which made me aware of the gay issues, and eventhough I have never lacked friends where I live (really!), I felt like I finally found a place and people who understand me as well, my own issues I mean.

When the day comes gays and lesbians (and not just as single characters but in actual relationships) are as much a part of tv shows and movies as they are of daily life and when they can kiss without censors having a cow or the producer 'worrying' about whether that would be exploiting them, and when there has been *one* relationship that has lasted longer than one episode that actually [b:aabf06d63c] ends[/b:aabf06d63c] happy, get back to me then, until then Joss Whedon can shove equality up his ass .

[themagicpixie]

I am just utterly bewildered that showing two girls kissing actually offends people more than graphic heterosexual sex, shockingly upsetting murder scenes etc. I think, however, that that is basically the way the world is - until only recently on UK television every lesbian kiss would generate, or be preceded by, a wave of newspaper articles. The more liberal papers would point out it was happening and say it might be "controversial" - the right-wing ones would ask what the country was coming to, and fear for our children. But murder, rape etc etc on in primetime TV - no-one seems to bat an eyelid.

I saw a Season 5 ep the other day in which Spike and Harmony have sex while Spike fantasises about Buffy. I thought the presentation of this scene was a bit over-the-top and frankly unnecessary in what is seen by many to be a "kids' show". I haven't seen much of Season 6 yet but from what I have read it looks like I am going to explode with rage that people will actually have more qualms about showing two women in bed together than very graphic portrayals of heterosexual sex, and, more to the point, an innocent young woman getting shot through the heart by a misogynist man who has already killed before (and, sickeningly, "got away with it", to sniggers all round).

The message Buffy sends out now is quite disgustingly sickening, and its efforts to court the 13-year-old boy audience, whilst fobbing off the loyal fans of ALL the characters, but especially those of Willow and Tara, is truly appalling from a show supposedly a beacon of female empowerment. All it illuminates now are the true colours of Joss Whedon and his gang of sycophantic, overpaid TV executives who would no longer know an original idea if it jumped up and bit James Marsters' arse on the TV screen in front of them.

I don't want to hear another word from these morons about social messages. To the producers: You have no idea what you are doing, no right to be in television, and are no longer welcome in my living room to force your crude, patronising little lessons down my throat. I am glad I am old enough to know gay people can be happy, and not simply dead or evil, and that your nonsensical attempts to create a "Big Bad" this season don't hurt me as much as they might have done a few years ago - but I feel for those young people who have had their only positive role models on TV taken away in such a pointless, soulless, witlesss way. Your show is not entertainment any more. It is now a parody of itself, and every critic thinks Season 6 was a big mistake. I realise your egos, not to mention your paycheques and UPN contracts, can't let you admit your mistake, but don't expect your audience to go along with everything you do and think it's wonderful, nor how to learn how to live their lives from, jeez, seeing a killer vampire dude who wears black SMOKE. This is the thing you have not allowed for, Mutant Enemy: your audience is not ALL, not even MOSTLY, 13-year-old boys, and we can think for ourselves, and we will desert you, and your attempts at television, which incidentally were probably scrawled on the nursery walls with yellow crayon for most of the past year, huh?

*rant over*

[AutumnT]

Now is an excellent time to write letters to the editor of EW because they've had Buffy related articles the past 2 weeks. You stand a much better chance of getting your letter and having it printed if you write in response to the "Character Flaws" article this week that asks if viewers will forgive Willow, as I think the real question is will viewers forgive Joss. If enough of us write they are sure to print one.

Just my advice. Keep them short. Keep them clean. And don't make them overly dramatic.

[helpful information perha]

the addy to use to send EW a letter

letters@ew.com


the two most recent pieces to respond to

www.ew.com/ew/report/0,61...od,00.html
Character Flaws

Why are TV's ''good guys'' doing very bad things? The imperfect heroes of ''24,'' ''Buffy,'' and ''The West Wing'' have blood on their hands by Ken Tucker
Until recently, it was a given in episodic television that a show's central protagonist couldn't do something really dreadful (like commit murder) because it would kind of undercut the concept of being the ''hero'' of a show, don'tcha know. Yet during the season that recently ended:
? Kiefer Sutherland's CIA agent on ''24,'' Jack Bauer, takes a good, long look at the guy he thinks has killed his daughter (Dennis Hopper's Victor Drazen) and empties his gun into him.
? Alyson Hannigan's Willow on ''Buffy the Vampire Slayer'' captures doofus-villain Warren (Adam Busch), whom she holds responsible for the death of her lover, and flays him alive (or as Anya put it, ''She killed him, ripped him apart, and bloodied up the forest doing it'').
? Martin Sheen's President Bartlet on ''The West Wing'' signs off on the assassination of a foreign terrorist, whose demise we see in the season ender's final moments, intercut with shots of Bartlet seemingly resigned to his decision.
So, do we -- should we -- have any qualms about these protagonists, each in his or her own way the object of intense viewer loyalty? As I said, this isn't a question we'd have tussled with a decade ago. There's no way anyone on, for instance, ''L.A. Law'' would've knowingly committed murder -- with, as they say, malice aforethought -- and be permitted (by the show's producers, by the network, by the audience) to continue being an admirable/likable/identifiable-with character the next season. Yet it looks like that's just what the folks behind ''24,'' ''Buffy,'' and ''West Wing'' intend to do.
The real cliff-hanger on ''24,'' for example, is not whether Jack will be racked with guilt over offing Drazen, who wasn't a nice guy and whose sub-monster-movie accent, as delivered by Hopper, made him an exceedingly expendable character. Jack's act of revenge was no more defensible than the violence perpetrated by Charles Bronson's character 28 years ago in ''Death Wish,'' a shamelessly rabble-rousing thriller that set off a national debate about how far a figure positioned as a good-guy vigilante could go. In this age of Eminem, such a concern is irrelevant; in its place, ''24'' artfully maneuvered us to mourn the fate of Jack's wife, Teri (Leslie Hope), who herself had been shot and left cradled in her husband's arms at the fadeout. I'm guessing that Jack will express some remorse in the following season's premiere, and then we'll be on to another exhausting day in his life, without any of us being called upon to feel bad about rooting for him.
By contrast, ''Buffy'' creator Joss Whedon and this past season's guiding hand, fellow exec producer Marti Noxon, are, as a young character in their scripts might say, all about the remorse thing. ''Willow has killed a human being -- how will she be able to live with herself?'' asked Anthony Stewart Head's Giles, and indeed, that act was truly shocking for being committed so purposefully, so cavalierly, by a character many of us cherish. How Whedon and Co. convince us of Willow's redemption is a huge obstacle to overcome next season as far as I'm concerned -- it's gonna take more than a spray of counterspelling pixie dust or a well-written speech to redeem she who fans are already calling the Dark Willow.


www.ew.com/ew/report/0,61...at,00.html
Let 'Em Eat Stake

A bloody good chat with ''Buffy'''s creator. With the second season hitting DVD, Joss Whedon offers some sound bites on vampire sex, style, and substance by Jeff Jensen

[AutumnT]

In the magazine it says to send letters to ew_letters@ew.com instead, at least that is the address I used.

[helpful information perha]

I got the addy from this page at the bottom where it says write to us under "editors"

www.ew.com/ew/aboutus/

[AutumnT]

Then they probably both go the same place I'm thinking.

[xita]

SMG and Freddie Prinze are on the cover of the EW. Mostly they talk about whatever but she had one interesting quote about Buffy this season:

[quote:7c3b756e87][b:7c3b756e87][i:7c3b756e87]Quote:[/i:7c3b756e87][/b:7c3b756e87]

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Gellar's Buffy contract expires at the end of next season, ostensibly leaving her free for more film projects in the future, should she choose not to renew. [b:7c3b756e87] She sounds a bit ambivalent about the series' move last year from The WB to UPN. "It hasn't been as easy as everyone makes it sound," she says. "It's like anything- you're in some place for five years, and things are just done differently [somewhere else]." [/b:7c3b756e87]Eager to tackle new challenges, she says she'd love to work with someone like Moulin Rouge's Baz Luhrmann. "It's not just about making $100 million at the box office - It's about a craft, a profession."

"I'm looking forward to her post-Buffy life," says Gellars' longtime agent Eddie Yablans (who also recently took on Prinze as a client). "One of the problems we have is that we only h ave a tw-and-a-half window to fit a movie into. [After Buffy] she'll have more time to explore things, really build a career as a movie actress. She can do whatever she wants to do."

---

[/quote:7c3b756e87]

[maudmac]

That's interesting. SMG seems to be implying that UPN was responsible for a lot of season 6's shit. I guess I should have known that. So now I have to extend my bitterness all the way to the top. To the folks who cared so much about the "boy numbers."

Great. Another round of letter-writing. This is getting tiresome.