Joss says Tara's gone

[LovePuddle]

Preach on sister Sela.......I guess he thinks he can serve up a big ol' plate of Bullshit with a side of Barf and we're just supposed to eat it all up and smile while we're doing it.

Can't stand that man.


:vamp Joss

[urnofosiris]

[quote:efb5a2e3a1][b:efb5a2e3a1][i:efb5a2e3a1]Quote:[/i:efb5a2e3a1][/b:efb5a2e3a1]

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I can't BELIEVE he's saying he wasn't aware of the cliche!

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Don't believe it. The "I have no idea what goes on in the world outside my big head" routine does not fly here. If he was unaware of it, why would they even ask themselves the question whether they should kill the *gay* character? If gays were treated equally in society or the media, this would not even have to be a question, but it is, and they asked it, so they bloody well knew.

Now they killed the gay character, you know I can actually accept that, not as if that was a big fucking surprise, but what I can't accept is that he lied about it beforehand, that he dares claim equal treatment for Willow and Tara on his show (not even talking about the media in general), if Tara had been a guy he'd be dead now too, yada yada. Well, if she had been a guy, we would *not* have had to wait for over a year to get a first kiss onscreen, or till the ep she dies in to get a scene as close to a sex scene as there was, but not even close to the Buffy bangfesting througout the series.

"Equal" my big orange ass. But then he could say "well we were being censored", oh wait, he can't say that, he said the censoring was not so bad (I was there when he said this), and hey, we did get that phenomenal kiss in Entropy, so indeed it was possible all season long on UPN anyway, but why didn't we get it sooner? Nothing close to all the face sucking all the others got to do. Funny how WT are only treated equal when it suits his selfrighteous pompous ass.

He can kill who ever he pleases, but do *not* lie, do *not* claim equal treatment when there is none, and do *not* presume to know what others need, he may get off on pain, but I don't.

[xita]

In the end we find that Tara was not only just a plot device and a prop, but a point. I can kill gay people, yes I can.

So Tara is the only character in the history of buffyverse, that can't come back. Fair treatment yes.. yeah.. great.

[themagicpixie]

Tara says: Joss is gone. Or at least any semblance of creativity and talent he ever had.

Who cares what Joss says? Tara is ours now.

[Bagheera]

This reminds me so much of the scene in "Anna and the King" where Anna tries to intercede to save the life of the King's concubine, but the king paradoxically feels that he is forced to proceed with the execution, because to accede to Anna's plea would be seen as weakness.

The parallel doesn't end there. Joss has ultimate power in his own little kingdom and is no doubt surrounded by fawning sycophants. IMHO he needs a bit of that ancient Greek action, where a huge sword is suspended by a thread over the throne, or a courtier walks behind the king, telling him constantly "this all shall pass."

The Buffy Season 7 ratings and UPN's reaction to them should fill those two roles nicely, I think.

[EffieBlue]

Joss made a mistake and is now trying to justify what he did and why he did it. How he fell head first over his own protestations of his awareness of the "lesbian Cliche" His outrage that Tara couldn't be killed because she was gay (which i can't recall anyone actually saying) is a defence against his mistake.

Joss has always had ONE desire, to put a character in the credits and kill them in that episode. THAT is the story that Joss wanted to do. He was running out of time to do this, with the thought that next season would probably be Buffy's last there was little time to get a new character introduced and loved by the fans. He had just the one he needed. Tara. Look at all the pressure that was out there as to why Amber Benson was not in the credits, look at all the half assed answers that were given, EVERYONE skirted around it. There was never a clear answer to why she wasn't in the credits. The truth is she never would be until the episode she was killed. This was Joss' vision. He then had to write a story around it. Had to make a big impact with it. Hence a season that just doesn't add up. Hence a season that showed Tara as such a sympathetic character, the only one grown up. We were meant to love her meant to be ecstatic at Willow and Tara getting back together, hence the moment we believed totally in them as a couple again, she dies. Maximim impact, maximum effect.
This was never about Tara being killed because she was Gay/Straight or whatever, it was about a desire, a dream Joss had to kill a charracter in the episode they featured in the credits.
As far as I know i have not read a post that says Tara shouldn't die because she is Gay all I have read is that the way it was done was wrong. Joss has the reaction he wanted the shock the horror of her death. He states it himself, he knew it was the right character because she was loved so much, because it would hurt everyone so much.
This is what makes the whole thing so weak. The writers given the task to make this work just hasn't come off, it has given us a season that is overall very disjointed and weak. The only powerful episode being Seeing Red, where his vision is realised. There then follows a storyline that is meant to justify Tara's death as the reason Willow goes over the edge into a self centered reaction to her loss and her inability to control her addiction and her emotions. It just doesn't work. It was done last season in Tough Love, to a much greater effect and a much more believable story line.
Joss didn't give us what WE needed, he gave us what HE wanted and in doing so he wrote himself into the ultimate Lesbian Cliche. He may not of intended it but he did it. He didn't think, he didn't see past his own desire and now he is trying to say he didn't know he was doing it.
I think it's time HE grew up.
This isn't about Tara being untouchable because she was gay, this is about poor writing and poor story lines to achieve one vision. It's about bad TV it's about a great show that has been failed by it's creator.

SMG said in an interview that next season they are going to put the "sun" back in Sunnydale. Lets hope they give Willow a sun lamp in her padded cell then.

[WTsnuggles]

No word to discribe what I think of the man. Lying his head off for what the last 2 and a half years. What a waste of a charactor and a great actress that deserved more.

What a thing to say "Or is she" That is plan mean and nasty to the fans how he has not respect for. He will want the support when Firefly airs. I very much doubt that he will get it from the Buffy fans.

I am pissed of beyond believe right now. All the promise's have been lies. How can you every believe anything Joss and co's says from now on.

Truly a waste.

[kpmuse]

A gracious man, a man with class, would have thanked the fans who loved Willow and Tara for their viewership. He would have understood the pain & anger and passion with which we have expressed it. He would have come before us with pride in his story, his decisions about Tara, and not the egotistical crass attitude he displayed.

He would have not compounded the pain and bitterness that his former fans feel.

Rosie was classy this morning in saying thank-you fans for watching for these last 6 years. She knows a lot of us are upset that she's leaving. She has grace and class.

Joss Whedon does not.

[tkheaven]

I'm forewarning you guys...this is may be kinda lengthy. I apologize. If mods wish to remove, I understand. Kittens, I will repeat, beware the first part I have to say may be upsetting but I more than make up for it...

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And I knew some people would be angry with me for destroying the only gay couple on the show, but the idea that I COULDN'T kill Tara because she was gay is as offensive to me as the idea that I DID kill her because she was gay. Willow's story was not about being gay. It was about weakness, addiction, loss... the way life hits you in the gut right when you think you're back on your feet.

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Many kittens may not like what I'm about to say but I have a point to this. I actually understand the above quote. Not because I think Tara should have died (because I don't). If all was well with Willow and Tara, then it would in fact be just as "offensive" only because it would show that lesbians need preferential treatment, like they were better than any character on the show and not be consistant with the whole getting hurt or running away or dealing with demons, real or inner. That in itself would create a problem because they would be protected from that.

Yes, W/T had a moment that they were not together. Willow's abuse of magic separated them. That would most likely not have helped Willow's arc because we know as long as Tara was alive she wouldn't go there. But Willow had to learn that the magicks needed to be controled from within herself, not just because of Tara. Willow was dependant in one way or another and that wasn't good for her. Look at all the other characters (ok, not all but most) that were involved with the Scoobies. They either ended badly or simply ended. That's Joss for you, when it came to love he always had a way of ending it. Why did Spike do an attempt rape on Buffy? That really wasn't him. No matter how much we hated him...it was a bit out of character IMO. But Joss had to throw it in there. Anya and Xander have their problems. Whether they resolve or not doesn't really matter to me anymore (or any other relationship for that matter). Xander left Anya (and I know some of us flipped) and realized it was stupid or that they needed more time. Anya became a VD out of anger and even if she [i:e4d01756de] could[/i:e4d01756de] hurt him, I don't think she would. They get to live. That's Joss for you.

Now, this in mind, why I don't think he went the best way about it. [b:e4d01756de] I don't agree with Joss' actions.[/b:e4d01756de] Because he didn't have to KILL Tara and that's why we're pissed. Should we be? Shit yeah, we should! [i:e4d01756de] Because[/i:e4d01756de] she died, [i:e4d01756de] because[/i:e4d01756de] of the manner she died, [i:e4d01756de] because[/i:e4d01756de] of the way Willow killed Warren as a cause of Tara's death. [i:e4d01756de] Because[/i:e4d01756de] the latest relationships the scoobies are involved in are [i:e4d01756de] still[/i:e4d01756de] suffering, [b:e4d01756de] both parties[/b:e4d01756de]. Will A/X get back together? Fuck if I know. Will B/S get back together now that he "got what he came for, what the slayer deserves"? Fuck if I even care. Why? Because while in theory, I get it, in reality it's NOT RIGHT. Because IT IS NOT WHAT WE NEED. We get it every fucking day of our lives. That it's wrong, that it's bad, that we need to be punished. Is THAT what we NEED? I, for one, didn't need this OR want it. Joss WANTED us to NEED it. That's what I got. And I don't care for it.

Joss wanted to build up Willow's arc. OK...We don't [i:e4d01756de] want[/i:e4d01756de] Tara to get shot but we [i:e4d01756de] need[/i:e4d01756de] it to get Willow all DMBitch. OK, accepted. We don't [i:e4d01756de] want[/i:e4d01756de] Willow to ulimately go after her friends to only have Xander say "I Love You" over and over but we [i:e4d01756de] need[/i:e4d01756de] it to stop her from ending the world. Ok, I'll deal (maybe...ok, I can't but whatever). We don't [i:e4d01756de] want[/i:e4d01756de] for Willow to look like an old pruned grape but we [i:e4d01756de] need[/i:e4d01756de] it for that BMW consistancy (LOL). Joss, here's an idea. Shoot Tara..have Willow go bezerky..go after the Troika..don't kill Warren, make him suffer..everything else goes as planned..except for Xander's lame talk. Willow is suffering.. Buffy and Dawn are now good..Xander and Anya are, well, whatever..and OH MY, WHAT'S THIS? TARA IN A [b:e4d01756de] COMA[/b:e4d01756de]??? Without having WHOLE FREAKING DAY go by, let's just have us believe Tara died not because we [i:e4d01756de] want[/i:e4d01756de] it..we [i:e4d01756de] need[/i:e4d01756de] it! Don't you think that would have been just as effective?? Willow thinks she's dead and still goes on a rampage. With everything going on do you think anyone else would have had the chance to find out that, oh by the way..She's Alive? But in a coma, much more what we [i:e4d01756de] wanted[/i:e4d01756de] perhaps? Oh but we don't [i:e4d01756de] need[/i:e4d01756de] it. I getcha know. Or wait..in some other story arc you concoct, Tara ends up leaving town (this is if in fact Amber couldn't stay). Either way, isn't not what we [i:e4d01756de] want[/i:e4d01756de], it's what we [i:e4d01756de] need[/i:e4d01756de].
Joss, take a note, read some of these fics in Pens. The stories have angst. End it differently if you want but don't backstab us and drive it deeper.

What [i:e4d01756de] we don't need[/i:e4d01756de], as a whole, male or female, gay or straight...is the reminder that this world is as fucked up as it is. Because what [i:e4d01756de] we want[/i:e4d01756de] is equality and acknowledgement, with the troubles of love, with the troubles of life as any other would have it. Plain and simple.

[tyche]

Slayage have a complete record of Joss's comments here if you're interested.

[urnofosiris]

Willow kicked her habit, without Tara, then they killed her so they could have Willow go on a magic bender [i:a82ec0b752] again[/i:a82ec0b752]. *Yawn* Did I see this before? Hmm yeah, how original. Even if I were not a WT fan I would find nothing remotely interesting or original in this entire "arc".

[quote:a82ec0b752][b:a82ec0b752][i:a82ec0b752]Quote:[/i:a82ec0b752][/b:a82ec0b752]

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Because he didn't have to KILL Tara and that's why we're pissed

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Speak for yourself, what pisses me off, like I said in my previous post is that he LIED about it, he is still lying about it, claiming equal treatment when there is NONE. Telling us what we need. The sheer arrogance and ignorance of this all is what infuriates me. He gave us what he himself needed, and Mr Whedon seems to think that that must apply to us all then, because he has never been wrong has he?

[tkheaven]

Clarifying...yes, while Willow was kicking the habit, her starter was almost killing Dawn, but she layed off for hope that Tara sees it and that she's clear of magic, that they get back together..no? And we're pissed not only that Tara died but the manner and, as I mentioned, the backstabbing Joss did. DrG, I agree with everyone here that he simply f***ed up...

[Bagheera]

Thanx 'Tyche' for the URL to JW's full posting.

Can I have some of the heavy duty drugs that the guy is obviously on????

What an insult. The only thing JW needed was a story arc. S6 was on the verge of tanking. The plot lines in the last four episodes look like they were cobbled together in sheer desperation.

And: "It (T's death) very unlikely it was more painful to you than it was to me." How DARE the man presume to know our pain, or anyone else's for that matter.

Save me from Hollywood egos. I will NEVER invest any part of myself in a TV show again - ever.

[kate]

This is just awful, I am the most upset I have been since the news broke.

Because he was so upset he was killing her it meant it was the right thing to do? Well I'm sorry but that it completely insane logic. If her death meant so much to Joss then why wasn't more feeling and trauma injected into the scripts? Yes we all know about Willow but please, that is even more of an insult - cat fights and insults to titiallate the demographics while we get mere scraps of evidence of her real pain.

They could have gone about this another way. Most fans believe this. Most fans are with us, because hell, most fans are Tara fans.

I actually had hope, what a fucking idiot I am.

[Warduke]

Fuck you Joss.

You arrogant piece of shit.

You're a lying asshole, nothing more.

I will take immense pleasure in watching Firefly (and your career) go down in flames.

Thanks for nothing jackass.

[Cici]

"I have no plans to send Tara anywhere (? )... but wait..... maybe in season 6" - Joss

[b:8551d37684] He wanted to show us how unpredictable he is!
That he can do what every he wants to do.[/b:8551d37684]

"Tara is gay, oh i cant kill her..... but thats the point... i have to kill her, to show the fans that i *can* do this!!!!! Doesnt matter what they think about that"

Ok, theres no hope anymore..... shes gone... forever.
Maybe for one episode as ghost? ... tze......

[brave little toaster]

Will we still be able to get mail to Amber at the old studio address? Will they forward it (sniff--it breaks my heart to ask that) to her?
I haven't written fan mail since I was a kid, but I'd really like to send her a letter thanking her for the past two and a half years.

blt

[urnofosiris]

You know what, I don't care about what kind of story they were trying to tell. Yeah they could have killed Tara in a "better" way, they could have done better by the character of Willow and her problems, but they did not. They handled this sorry excuse of a story almost as badly as it could have been handled. They preceded it with lies and now they are succeeding it with lies.
That man had a "vision", it hurt him, so he knew it was "good", it was what we "needed", damned be if it made any kind of sense to the story or the characters. It looked "cool". You want to make sense of it, go for it. I am tired of it all. I don't want to waste my time understanding any of it anymore, seeing as they themselves are so totally unwilling to understand what it is they have done here. What it is we are saying.

[morgan1707]

I'm sure he does love Amber, but what about Tara? Surely, she is a character in her own right. Why does she have to die to further Willow's arc? I don't understand that.

Bleh. Trying to make sense of it all...

[themagicpixie]

More feeling and trauma wasn't injected into the scripts because it's not just the plotlines of this show that have gone down the toilet. It's the writing, too.

Earlier this season my sister and I watched "Hell's Bells" and actually burst out laughing at several points, but not because that episode was intentionally funny, but because it was so bad. That pretty much sums up this season - just laughable - and in a very bad way.

People originally thought this show was going to crash and burn - it was called "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", it was based on a flop film, etc. The show managed to confound expectations by the use of a little thing called irony - there were genuinely funny scripts, witty little touches, and overall the feeling of something DIFFERENT to what we saw on the rest of TV.

This has all been swept away. The show is no longer any fun, it no longer surprises, and not just because everything that was going to happen this season was leaked way in advance.

This programme has just lost it. It had lost it before Tara's death, the whole of this season has been really embarassing to watch. The episode in which the nerds kill Katrina was one of the most tasteless and irresponsible things I have seen in a long time, and there was no JOY in it, no FUN in it, no witty self-knowingness, just a horrible death and horrible little boys. I am really surprised that more of a fuss hasn't been made over that, especially when Jonathan and Andrew were party to it and will appear to suffer no sanction whatsoever for it. It's pretty disgusting. I hope ME are now proud of their foul-messaged, foul-mouthed (how many times can Spike say "bitch"?), morally bankrupt show that has lost all power to be shocking, and now is just plain lame.

[kate]

"The gay thing is so passe. We're over that. But honestly, that's just the way Clem ACTS. We're having a talk."

Sorry to sound like a bitter lesbian, but um, I am one. This quote really pisses me off. Ha ha Joss, what an appropriate joke.

Clem and Lorne should run and never stop.

[WTsnuggles]

Personally I think Joss comes across a a arrogant school boy simple stamping his feet and running around in circles. I can't believe how arrogant they all come over, and how amused they all seem to be that we are hurt and upset.

Yer where pissed, Pissed because he has openly lying to us and laughing behind our backs. Pissed that you killed a character that had so many possibilities for stories.Pissed that this season has been so crap. Pissed that so many stories could have been told and seem to have been set up for. Pissed that Tara is dead with know reason other to amuse Joss. Pissed that Amber will not be in the show. Pissed that there was no meaning to her death, No goodbye. Hell other then Willow and Dawn no one seemed to give a damn.

I feel so sorry for Amber, it must have been a blow, To have been so supportive of the show and to have this happen. What a B.....d Joss has turned out to be and a hypocrite.

I have never felt so let down by someone then I do right now.

[hellmouthhottie20]

Please dont call me pathetic.
But does anyone have any hope of her coming back.
IT (joss) lied before.
Maybe iam an idiot.

Caz

[xita]

Tara unlike any other character on buffy cannot come back, because he has to make a point, doesn't he?

[themagicpixie]

Why CAN'T Tara come back, Joss?

What's that... you don't know? I mean, this is Buffy, anything is possible, right?

I feel pretty sick at the support the LGB community gave to this show... we were duped.

[Wiccagrrl313]

Sorry, personally my hope is gone. All that is left is my bitterness and sheer exhaustion. And even if she did come back? It would not make any of this ok. The damage has been done. And that's what ME doesn't understand or want to understand. They wanted the praise for showing the cute lesbian couple, but apparently the responsibility became too much of a burden. Can't kill her off? What do you mean I can't kill her off? Well, I'll show you...

The sad thing is, what Joss chose to see as a challenge was in fact a compliment. When people were saying "I don't think he'd go there", it wasn't saying he couldn't, but rather that he had shown himself to be better than that- smarter than that. Well, in that sense, yep, Joss... you sure showed us. Showed us that no, you clearly weren't better than this insulting travesty of a storyline, weren't above lying to your audience. Or adding insult to injury. So now we know.

[urnofosiris]

I would never call anyone pathetic for having hope. I have none in this matter however. It is a matter of principle to that man to not bring her back. Then he would have to listen to the homophobes and who ever else thinks this is all a great example of equal treatement saying he just brought her back to be politically correct, and well, we can't give them what they need instead of what they want now can we? Heaven forbid that should happen.

[The Partisan]

Well, S7 is in the planning stage, so, theoretically speaking, they could just resurrect Tara for the sheer hell of it...but don't hold your breath. I wouldn't be surprised to have a single closure-type episode with Tara as a ghost or a dream sequence, but I really don't expect Tara to be back full-time...which makes my decision to divorce myself from this show quite easy.

[themagicpixie]

Keeping storylines under wraps, being coy and cryptic - this doesn't harm a show.

Bare-faced lying to the fans is not big, not clever, and not a good idea, because the fans are the reason you are where you are, Joss, and there was no need to lie to them like this. I think this is one tactic that is going to backfire on you. It upsets people when they trust someone, and are lied to. OK? No, listen to me: it really ISN'T clever. It will destroy your show now.

[Coma123]

What can we do?? I mean how do we protest, not say bring her back, which I doubt he would do, but rather how do we show our absolute disgust and the way we've been treated?
Lied to, abused, you know it all....
How can we get the message reallllllly out there