Joss says Tara's gone

[tommo]

[quote:f8a056d789][b:f8a056d789][i:f8a056d789]Quote:[/i:f8a056d789][/b:f8a056d789]

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[b:f8a056d789] Not to mention that sounds as if Willow will be "fleeing" the country at the beginning of the season. Along with Joss, maybe he thinks there are no angry lesbians in the UK.[/b:f8a056d789]

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[/quote:f8a056d789]

Not angry. Bitter, maybe.

And I am the model of restraint under these circumstances. Rumors of me wanting to bare my breasts at any location filming, upon which the words "Where the hell is Tara and when is she coming back?" will be written, along with a copy of the Lesbian Cliche Essay from this board (and don't think there's not enough room because there is...) are um...wrong. Ahem.

[Rally]

Great... why are we talking about this again?

[helpful information perha]

Rack was a warlock, so a human male witch
if his death doesn't count as human then neither would willows or tara's

she's killed two humans no matter what whedon etal try to say and honestly deserves to be in a prison
there really isn't any way to redeem her short of turning back time

[emma peel]

Ruth just said: "And I am the model of restraint under these circumstances. Rumors of me wanting to bare my breasts at any location filming, upon which the words "Where the hell is Tara and when is she coming back?" will be written, along with a copy of the Lesbian Cliche Essay from this board (and don't think there's not enough room because there is...) are um...wrong. Ahem. "
Woo and Hoo!! Will there be any Kittens there with a camera, Ruth (Janice ducks for cover,just in case ).
Janice

[Sheridan]

[quote:de3b74b520][b:de3b74b520][i:de3b74b520]Quote:[/i:de3b74b520][/b:de3b74b520]

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maybe he thinks there are no angry lesbians in the UK

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[/quote:de3b74b520]

Or any other W/T fans. Sadly I ssupect by the time they get here I will have fled the country.
.

[Arafel the Witch]

Um, as a witch a feel a strong need to point out that a warlock isn't a male witch. A male witch is precisely that, a male witch. A warlock is a traitor; it was often used as a term to describe those who turned in witches to the Inquisition.

Since everyone here has been critical about me getting ME facts wrong, I felt a need to point this one out.

[Rally]

ME makes it's own rules up when it comes to demons and [b:b143377f54] [i:b143377f54] their mythology[/i:b143377f54][/b:b143377f54], as they are so fond of telling us. They may not consider Rack to be a human, they may not care. Much the way you have David Fury saying Anya as a VD has no soul and Jane Espenson saying that she does.

[themagicpixie]

Hmm... a lot would need to be explained, if anyone on this show cared about logic, or if they employed someone to keep an eye on continuity. Next season a lot will be forgotten, because this show sucks right now. Not because Joss is clever, creative, or omipotent, or because of the intricate mythology - no, just because it sucks.

[Penrose Orleans]

Amen! Does this next season herald a new low, or an improvement? The answer's obvious: not only is it impossible to fall into more stereotypes than last season, there are no more ga couples to destroy!

[Ggobba]

Speaking of rules, isn't Faith in jail for more or less killing someone? If Buffy has strong feelings about killing humans, what sort of feelings does she have when it comes to responding to such killings? I mean I could go on and on, but Willow is really in the doldrums. I am eager to see how they're going to pull her out? Unfortunately, all this compels to conclude that the SG is priveleged group. The whole bunch thinks the journey is much more important than the end result.

[Hair Annoyed]

Let's imagine that Willow felt so much remorse that she tried to confess to the police. Would they be able to convict her of anything without Warren's body? Probably not. And I'm not sure Rack's death would even be believed to be a murder. I mean, Willow drained the magic/life essence out of him. Wouldn't that just look like a natural cause of some sort? Heart failure maybe? The police would probably conclude that she was a crackpot and send her away.

Also I feel the need to point out that most people on this board are aware or have been made aware that the word warlock originally refered to a traitor or oath breaker. But "male witch" is its current definition, and more precisely the one used on the show we are discussing, so it seem OK to me to refer to Rack as a warlock.

[drusilla(d)]

i just hope that they dont ignore that willow has killed a human next season, she has to have some remorse over that fact. Faith had to go to jail, Buffy had alot of remorse when she thought she killed Katrina and even Ted in "Ted" so i dont think they should treat Willow any diffrent.

[Hair Annoyed]

Well, I think alot of it depends on when the action is taking place. If Buffytime follows real time (as it usually does) then the season starts several months after all the deaths take place. The worst part of the grief/remorse would have taken place over the summer. By fall she should be feeling more of a dull ache, depressing pain but not as acute as what she felt on the bluff. Since Giles mentioned that she would never be the same after killing someone, I assume they will play that up, but she won't become like Faith. I'm guessing she'll become more like Giles in the aftermath of his Ripper days. Even if she doesn't actually become a watcher (and I suspect she will) I could entirely believe her killing Ben if she were in Giles' position in "The Gift", at least I could believe it of her NOW. I couldn't have believed it of her then, and I think that that is the change that has occured.

[Penrose Orleans]

I'm hoping it'll pick up from the moment of the finale, since otherwise we won't get to see ANY sort of mourning for Tara (you know, some normal people have funerals)... but maybe that's for the best, since at least we'd be able to PRETEND that there was a funeral!

[urnofosiris]

Let's be careful with how we speculate ok? We don't want to give Whedon any worse ideas than what he will come up with himself.

[Arafel the Witch]

I really don't see why Willow should feel remorse over killing Warren. The man was a sociopathic killer. If there ever was some sort of legal action, Willow could make a case for self defense (remember when she was chasing him in the woods and he hit her with an axe, and explosive device, and a deadly spell, without knowing her full intentions). She could also make a case for temporary insanity. But even though I am fairly anti-death penalty, I don't see anything wrong in the larger scheme of things with Willow's actions. I'd look at it as a preemptive strike; Warren had dedicated himself to causing pain and suffering to the Slayer and her friends, and nothing suggests he had changed his mind about that. Just as Giles showed no remorse for killing Ben/Glory, I don't see why Willow should show remorse for killing Warren. She should, however, show remorse for almost killing Giles, Buffy and Dawn, but she can get over that.

[Warduke]

Listen up folks, this is a [b:ade66a18f7] W/T[/b:ade66a18f7] board, not a b/w wet dream board, [b:ade66a18f7] enough[/b:ade66a18f7] with this crap, if you want to talk about that shit, do it somewhere else...got it?

[xita]

It has nothing to do with what we think Willow should feel. Willow should be dancing on Warren's and Rack's grave. But... this show has clearly stated that humans should pay for killing humans by going to jail. It was nailed home when Buffy thought she'd killed Katrina. That has been the consistent message. If they don't follow through they are hypocrites, Willow should go to jail by the rules of their show.

[urnofosiris]

Well they [i:ad66c78fbe] are[/i:ad66c78fbe] hypocrites, they have proven that already. They have broken all of their own rules, so nothing is left. Didn't those other 2 nerds skip town? Jonathan got to make a magnamonious statement about turning themselves in and paying for their crimes, but did they? Did Andrew ever show remorse? Are they paying for their crimes? I guess Anya paid by getting dumped at the altar, well boo hoo, considering all she must have done and continuously bragged about. Xander paid by getting to be named the hero. I have no doubt they will make Willow pay worse than she could in jail. Willow is always the one paying the price when the others just get to stand by and thump themselves on the chest. Buffy has turned into the voice of hypocrisy herself, like Xander, with her preaching and her "do as I say and not as I do" attitude.

[Penrose Orleans]

Now there's a sad state of affairs... Joss has boxed himself in to the point where if he doesn't get rid of (or at least marginalize) one of the main characers by putting Willow in jail, he's a hypocrite. Why create the problem when you now there's no real, good solution?!?

[Killin Joke]

But if they do decide to be consistent and write her in jail... I wonder if they'll make the Faith-connection... No, not like that: any new love interest is DOOMED from the beginning (as much as I love Eliza: has got nothing to do with it). Would be cool to bring her back, though. They could share similar experiences, in a weird way, a bit uncomfortable, with their past and all... Poor girls

[Penrose Orleans]

And then maybe Faith could snap Buffy out of her self-serving, self-pitying, Spike-boinking ways! Hallelujah!!!

[Arafel the Witch]

While Faith and Willow sharing experiences would be interesting, it'll never happen. Eliza is a big movie star now; I don't think she wants to come back to Buffy.

[AutumnT]

A big movie star? Hardly. Making movies? Sure.

[Killin Joke]

Right on, Penrose !

I know Eliza's probably busy, Arafel, and maybe has no interest in returning (good on her, I'd say) but a kitten can wonder, can't she ? Uch, I could invent x scenario's to fix everything, and maybe improve things, set the stage for a new wicked season, and still: none of it will happen on screen Ah well, here's to hoping Amber and Eliza will play in another movie together some day (cfr. Bye, bye, love)

[relativegirl]

I think they may try to deal with the moral implications of what Willow has done, but my guess is they will ignore the legal implications. Which is for the best anyways b/c I can't remember the last time I saw a tv show with a less realistic portrayal of how police handle a crime scene than that drivel Marti wrote in Villains (well, there was this one time on the Flintstones that was arguably less realistic).

For the record, in California you can be convicted of, or enter a plea to, either murder or manslaughter without a body being found, especially when there are eyewitnesses.

This past season was both a critical and ratings failure, so I doubt they will dwell too long on anything that isn't happy, funny and "back to the way it was in season 1." The essence of next season will surely be Buffy and Spike and Spike's new soul and lots of nutty hijinx centered around whether those two crazy kids can make it in this whacky mixed up world.

They forgot about Tara in the span of one episode and I'm sure they will similarly forget about anything dark and foreboding involving Willow and her pain. They also abandoned any semblance of logical character development in season 6, so that won't be hindrance.

Willow will dry out in England and then return to basically being that quirky sidekick in a jumper from Sears. I also think they will make Willow asexual. She'll have occasional visits from ghostTara/spiritTara that will be sweet but not overly sad and not even remotely sexual (which it arguably could still be, along the lines of Vixens). It'll be ever so neat.

Not that I'll be watching. I caught about 40 minutes of the Gilmore Girls this week, and, all kidding aside, it was well-written, I could relate to the characters, the women were interesting and seemingly undegraded. While the show was certainly told through the eyes of the females, the men and boys were not whining emotional infants, in fact they seemed almost like actual 3-dimensional men just like in RL. Imagine that.

And I didn't miss BtVS even the tiniest tiny little bit.

[urnofosiris]

Actually, according to a fan report from about 3 months or so ago Eliza Dushku would not be opposed to reappearing on BtVS. The report is floating around the board somewhere, probably in the spoiler archives. I could try and find it, but frankly I do not care whether they parade the entire former Buffy cast around in the final season, I only care whether Willow and Tara will find each other again.

[Penrose Orleans]

Now wait a second... people, portrayed in other shows as... REAL PEOPLE?!? Now, I think this trend must be crushed before people start getting used to it!

[AutumnT]

It great. You should watch it. I've watched it for two years and it is highly enjoyable and a non-degrading option for Tuesdays at 8.

[tommo]

Well they've done themselves a real disservice at ME. See, they built the Willow/Tara relationship up to be something that comes along once in a lifetime; something unique; something so inherently part of the two girls that without one another they were less than the sum of their parts, so to speak.

And then they killed Tara.

So Willow's going to get over this is she? Yeah, in a pig's eye. But then, ME appear to make the rules up as they go along to suit themselves when and where. And that in itself makes me want to stop watching.