Joss says Tara's gone

[Penrose Orleans]

Great! I'll try it! Anything special I should look out for? (subplots, character developments etc.)

[Killin Joke]

Thanks for the hopeful Eliza-news, Dr G I know you all must think I'm a traitor now, but I'll watch anything that has my favourite actresses in it. I'm kinda slutty that way. Yep, bad movies, writing that makes you writhe in agony,... I'll undergo it all just to catch a glimpse of Amber, etc. Doesn't change my opinion about ME and co, though.

[Sheridan]

[quote:4e893e6c8e][b:4e893e6c8e][i:4e893e6c8e]Quote:[/i:4e893e6c8e][/b:4e893e6c8e]

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i dont think they should treat Willow any diffrent.

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[/quote:4e893e6c8e]

Ah [b:4e893e6c8e] Drusilla[/b:4e893e6c8e] thats becasue you do think, something the ME writers seem incapable of.

[Nouvelle]

In next weeks issue of Soap Opera Weekly they preview the upcoming season of BTVS. They talk about how long the series can last and what the future holds. Nothing real new. Joss does say last season was dark but he liked it. Next season will be more "girl power" and light hearted. Asked if all of the characters are coming back Joss replies " yeah, everyone but Tara" as he laughs.

I'm to cheap to buy the issue to write the exact quote so let it be know that I'm parapharsing.

I erased my cookies so I had to re-register with my old user name. If anyone cares.

[Warduke]

[quote:e337e9a48d][b:e337e9a48d][i:e337e9a48d]Quote:[/i:e337e9a48d][/b:e337e9a48d]

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Asked if all of the characters are coming back Joss replies " yeah, everyone but Tara" as he laughs.

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[/quote:e337e9a48d]

Just more proof that he's a complete asshole.

[AutumnT]

God what a prick. Yeah that is really funny. I guess he's laughing through all that intense pain he felt in doing it. It's quite obvious how much it hurt him.

[drusilla(d)]

okay, so i read the www.aintitcoolnews.com page. and it said that the master may be the big bad for the last season.....i dont know if i really wnat him back, he wasnt THAT bad. I mean, Buffy killed him.

[VampNo12]

I have to agree with Warduke's comment about Joss being an "asshole"! I usually get that magazine for my soaps, but I hate how the writers for the magazine seemed to have loved the whole DMW plot-line, it just frustrates me to no end.

As for Joss comments (ie his laughing) he just doesn't know when to quit, and proves once again that his ego (and out of spite) would never let us get the real Tara back. To think I once believed this man could do no wrong, god how the mighty Joss has fallen.

[xita]

Nouvelle, I like your old name better anyway, cause I am still used to it

hmm it seems too much? anyone with me on that.. never mind.. i am drunk anyway.

[morgan1707]

I couldn't care less if Eliza came back. Faith became really annoying and grating towards the end of her stay in Season 3. While the two-parter in Season 4 was good, Faith was still being annoying with her ridiculous psycho bitch attitude because she's had a bad life. In the words of Willow - Boo hoo.

Did anyone read the post on TBCS Message board who wrote details about Tara's "re-emergence" as a spirit guide for Buffy? Well, I think it's bull, but if you want to read it, it's there. It's by a guy called ZachsMind, and it's in the "What did the Spoilerslayer mean when he said our beloved Amber would be back?" thread.

[TheCardinal2]

[quote:267e17a19e][b:267e17a19e][i:267e17a19e]Quote:[/i:267e17a19e][/b:267e17a19e]

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"Just more proof that he's a complete asshole."

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[/quote:267e17a19e]

[b:267e17a19e] Warduke:[/b:267e17a19e] I'll see your 'complete asshole' and raise you a 'total and utter fucking wanker'.

[urnofosiris]

Oh yes Tara dying is such a laughing matter, that is how you treat the character and actress you claimed to love, what a guy!

[mariacomet]

{sarcasm}
Wait wait wait....I thought Joss got physicially ill every time he talked about Tara dying.

Then this interview says he laughs.

Huh.

I'm sensing a strange contradiction here.

{/sarcasm}

[urnofosiris]

Of course I should be enlightened and see his laughing and saying all characters except Tara will be back as a silver lining instead of being angry about it, but I am just not that kind of a person, just look at my sig.

[MaClayMagic]

Did anyone else get the symbolism this year? It struck me last night. What was played with this season? Kittens. Spike played Kitten poker. Not big cats, but Kittens. Joss is all very big on the messages sent out. Was this a dig at us and a message we'd be played with, and geez, his games hurt because didn't death come to the kittens won? Or am I merely paranoid with good reason after season 6? Just struck me a little aside when my brain popped this up in the mental toaster!
I can't even begin to read what the comments here are on what Joss has said because I am so furious with him it hurts. When is he gonna wake up with a clue as to what he has done?

[tommo]

Heh heh, yeah I think someone mentioned this at the time about the kitten poker. Well Joss, your poker face is slipping mate. Because now we all know what a heartless wanker you are.

And I don't give a shit if anyone thinks that's too much of an offensive thing to say. Laughing at Tara's death? And yet he's the one who's all with the "wonderful Amber Benson" platitudes.

I've been watching the Season 4 DVDs lately and honestly, Joss' commentaries rankle with me. Bastard.

[Dumbsaint]

Not to detract from the current "Joss is a prick" theme of this thread, because I share that opinion with every fiber of my being, but I have to figure that this whole laughing over the "everyone except Tara" bit has to be connected to the "Tara will not be back, but Amber will" statement. At this point, I take anything and everything that comes out of his mouth with a Mt. Everest-sized hunk'a salt, but clearly he has something up his "Ain't I the craftiest bastard ever" brand sleeve. He's big with the double entendre thing. I'm sure that comment had something to do with him gloating that, at the very least, something or someone who looks like Tara will in fact be back next season.

[i:917cb28eca] Quietly goes back to imagining Acme bank vaults and anvils being dropped on the "Grr. Arrgh!" monster's head.[/i:917cb28eca]

[Katharyn]

Oh yes Dumbsaint you have hit the nail on the head there. He is laughing over the shit he is pulling now rather than the decision itself. I will believe that. There is one thing that hurts Joss more than anything - knowing that people do not see him as a genius anymore. Just as another producer. Not such a great one at that right now. I have every faith that he [b:e6cf3ea09a]will[/b:e6cf3ea09a] (perhaps only try to) pull something out of the hat that will be startlingly clever, not a cliche (seriously I mean that - he really might try something that is new), and will make the [b:e6cf3ea09a]general[/b:e6cf3ea09a] audience go "OOOOH Joss you ARE a genius."

Not this kitten. He has already confirmed Tara is gone. As if we did not know that. Anything he brings in with Amber will not be Willow's Tara. Our Tara.

I am a A/A fan. I love Willow. Maybe there will be something there that I could watch with Amber and Aly. Maybe. I would be prepared to concede that and I have seen speculation (built around the statements and known "facts") that I cannot contradict that would allow that "maybe" to be the case for me. But I am a W/T shipper and what it will not be is Willow and Tara as we knew and loved them.

Katharyn
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[Warduke]

[quote:01b57ba1c7][b:01b57ba1c7][i:01b57ba1c7]Quote:[/i:01b57ba1c7][/b:01b57ba1c7]

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But I am a W/T shipper and what it will not be is Willow and Tara as we knew and loved them.

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Thats precisely my point, and exactly why Joss will not be getting this W/T shipper to tune in next season. Im not Joss punching bag, he knocked the wind out of me once, he wont get a chance to do it again. Joss is counting on appeasing us by having Amber on the show, but not playing Tara, as much as I love Amber and I love seeing A/A together, it will not be our W/T, and when it comes to BtVS, it's [b:01b57ba1c7] all[/b:01b57ba1c7] about W/T for me, [b:01b57ba1c7] our[/b:01b57ba1c7] W/T...so why would I ever watch that?I won't, so you can take your pathetic show and shove it Whedon.

[Grimaldi]

I think its obvious that reading the comments that Joss has made lately, his ego has caused his head to grow so big that the blood to his brain has be cut off, and is incapable of intelligent thought and is suffering from the dreaded open mouth and insert foot disease.

[Katharyn]

Actually... I think Joss and co are engaging in exactly the same games that they have played every year - to great effect. I mean the speculation and spoiler stuff last year probably propped up what ratings they actually did have (via the net, magazines and general word of mouth.)

What they don't realise is that the general content of the last season changed everything. Leaving Tara's murder aside... that season was not anything that you could get excited about in hindsight. It was not even that the content was "bad" it was just (and I am still leaving W/T aside here) depressing as hell. All the way through. Without relenting. People rave about OMWF... but listen to the songs. See the words written down... and they are all tainted by that darkness and I could not really even enjoy that ep as I should have done. My actual fave... Tabula Rasa which as a stand alone episode would stand side by side with any great Buffy Ep ever... tainted.

It was relentless.

What Joss and co do not realise... is that the old tricks are not going to work here. They are just pissing people off this time. Because after being so emotionally drained... many fans don't have the energy to even care. They sucked it all away. And promises that they will give it back to us? Worthless... because last years promises were all broken. Or we were outright lied to.

They are doing nothing different to last years spoiler/spec game. It is just that they don't realise that they NEED to.

Katharyn
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[Sheridan]

Yeah [b:9ccb628deb] Katharyn[/b:9ccb628deb] Tabula Rasa was ruined for me by the inevitability of the ending. Knowing that Tara [i:9ccb628deb] had[/i:9ccb628deb] to go just ruined it. OMWF was kind of a con trick, playing it out as a musical nade it seem light hearted, but the whole thing ended in total darkness.

[Killin Joke]

"Everything is turning out so dark" alright... I, for one, wouldn't have had that much of a problem with the W/T-break-up (coz I had this gut feeling they were gonna get back together) but I thought it was going to lead to this 'rarrr' reunion - which it did - AND see them happy again ever after... Doh ! Needless to say, that last part, that's where I was wrong... Xena and Gab have had their rift, we're never separated long (Xe in Callisto's body if necessary). Now I've finally found a cute couple that's "out" there, it suffers me to see them coming up with devices not having to deal with the maintext. It sucks big time !

Buffy set the kittens free, so I hope they all manage to escape... "Run, doggie, run !" (Eden) Oops, wrong lyrics.

Josh is probably thinking: as long as they see Amber's pretty face (granted) on screen, the fans will be fine. Why can't he understand we were really treasuring Tara's character: her unique identiry, her special personality meant sooo much to us...

[Arafel the Witch]

I guess I really don't mind the darkness of S6. I thought it made perfect sense. Look what the Scoobies went through in S5. Joyce died, Buffy died, Dawn, who is a green ball of energy in her natural state, almost died, Tara was almost destroyed by Glory, Spike was almost killed by Glory, Buffy lost her boyfriend, etc etc etc. It was a neverending procession of pain, sort of like how life can sometimes kick you repeatedly. I had a couple of months like that this year, where I lost a job, lost my grandfather after a long battle with Alzheimers, and was diagnosd with severe osteo-arthritis and told I may have to give up climbing and hockey, and may never be able to play fiddle and guitar without pain again, and I'm only 33. Then I got a speeding ticket and had a car accident. After a while, you just start thinking, "Can I just please have one week where something doesn't go wrong?" And after getting hit repeatedly like that, you start to get very depressed.

So I really felt that was the logical way to go for S6. In fact, I respected ME more for going that way, instead of trying to make every sunny/sunnny happy/happy, which I thought would have been completely unrealistic.

[AutumnT]

You're not getting it. No one was asking for happy/happy. Season 5 did have dark moments, but it was also damn funny. It never lost its humor and more importantly it did not degrade its women for the whole frickin' season. Starting out with talk of raping and "tearing up little girls" in [i:708f473241] Bargaining[/i:708f473241] and frankly only getting worse after that. Believe me. We're big kids here. We can take angst. We can love [i:708f473241] Tabula Rasa[/i:708f473241] and [i:708f473241] Tough Love[/i:708f473241] above other episodes. This season was not just dark. It was degrading. There's a big difference. And what was it all for? Well to end with the SuperBitch smackdown between EvilWillow and attempted rape victim Buffy. That's entertainment? Not so much.

[Penrose Orleans]

Arafel-- It makes a lot of sense to not have your characters be COMPLETELY happy, you're right; however, what Joss did was the opposite extreme, just as bad-- complete unhappiness. You can count the number of happy moments and good fortune this season on your hands, and that isn't a good sign.

[Katharyn]

Arafel... let me say first that I am sorry about your unfortunate recent experiences. I know how bad stuff can stack up.*hugs*

I know that bad stuff happens and that is sort of the point of TV v's Life. See to me TV is escapism from the bad. I do not ask for happiness, sweetness and light (god those who read my fic will realise that) but darkness cannot be all that it is... there has to be some relief from that in a story. I started out liking the season I really did... on the basis that there would be variation as we went. There was not. It was a dark monotony. There has to be hope somehow to be better than some dark times in peoples lives. And, if you wrap a season, it should be in a good place that justifies the journey (I am big on journeys,) especially if you are claiming (as ME did) that the season was complete in it's own right (not a 2 season arc.)

Even when the news was bad I always thought that it would turn out okay because that was what it was supposed to be. Escapism. Fantasy. Getting away from the badness of the real world.

It failed to do so. It was worse than the real world in a a detached fictional sense. (And T's death which I was in no way detached from... it literally made me ill.)

That is not entertainment to me.

Ratings would suggest that alot of people agree but it is all to personal taste. I can understand the realism argument... as I am a fan of darkness but this was, to me, the other side of realism in a show that is built around the fantastic. Even the usually much darker Angel has moments that nrought it out of the dark. This season of Buffy did not. If W/T had got back together and Tara had lived I would not be excited about BTVS S7. I am not sure I could have watched it after S6... Of course with W/T I would... but only for them. You see they had lost me even without Tara's death. W/T was the only reason I was there as late as E18 when I stopped watching. (leaving them in a happy place that the season should have ended at.)

Without W/T I won't be putting myself through more darkness - darkness built around Willow grief even less so.

Katharyn
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[Kendahl897]

I know. This season was just so depressing. All Buffy did was walk around moping about being alive and then let herself become Spike's butt monkey. I actually had enjoyed the sesaon somewhat until after Tabula Rasa. But from then on, it seemed to be all downhill...Alot of times I felt that if you didn't have Anya on the show, there would have been almost no humor at all..I mean there were some light moments (birthday, wedding) but to me, it was just mostly depressing..And if you look at the ratings, I think alot of people out there seem to agree..I think after Sept.11, alot of people just needed some relief. Not more depression. Look at how Friends ratings shot up, look at the ratings for Gilmore Girls...............Joss, you reap what you sow...

[Penrose Orleans]

Kendahl-- You make a good point about Sept. 11-- people don't want to think of the world as an inherently bad place, yet that is harder and harder to do after Sept. 11, so TV became more important... well, not to Joss, I suppose!

[fontaine13]

My sentiments exactly. When we are living in a world where some nutbag drives a plane into the side of a building killing thousands and destroying so much more than just a building in the process, do we really need to turn on the our favourite TV show and see things like the last 4 episodes of S6? No we don't. Joss once again, I don't need you to tell me that life can be hard, what I need you to do is entertain me and help me forget that for a while.