Joss says Tara's gone

[xita]

Joss replying to some tara lovers:
[quote:882305d07f][b:882305d07f][i:882305d07f]Quote:[/i:882305d07f][/b:882305d07f]

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over the gay thing, revisited
Posted by: Joss - May 22, 2002, 2:27 AM
Thought I was out, but.... had one more thing to add. I killed Tara. Some of you may have been hurt by that. It very unlikely it was more painful to you than it was to me. I couldn't even discuss it in story meetings without getting upset, physically. Which is why I knew it was the right thing to do. Because stories, as I have so often said, are not about what we WANT. And I knew some people would be angry with me for destroying the only gay couple on the show, but the idea that I COULDN'T kill Tara because she was gay is as offensive to me as the idea that I DID kill her because she was gay. Willow's story was not about being gay. It was about weakness, addiction, loss... the way life hits you in the gut right when you think you're back on your feet. The course of true love never did run smooth, not on my show. (only Dennis Franz has suffered more than my characters.) I love Amber and she knows it. Eventually, this story will end for all of them. Hers ended sooner.

Or did it......?

Yeah, it did.

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[/quote:882305d07f]

[tommo]

And the way he asks the question at the end really doesn't help any either.

I can't understand this. He doesn't explain it. He doesn't appear to give a crap about what he's done. Because it's all in the story. That's the story. It's the storyteller in him.

[urnofosiris]

Gotta love that guy's "principles".

But yup, she is gone. She is here now, with Willow as she should be. I am taking what I want.

[Wiccagrrl313]

Not to mention taking what we need... which is *not* the events of the end of this season.

[Dave V]

[quote:d2418e2451][b:d2418e2451][i:d2418e2451]Quote:[/i:d2418e2451][/b:d2418e2451]

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I love Amber and she knows it

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[/quote:d2418e2451]
I would dearly like to ask Amber if she does in fact feel loved by Joss. Character killed in service of a lame-o plot arc. Wanting to stay on the show. Never in the credits (except that last sad time). Never getting the associated pay and perqs. She will in all likelihood have too much class and professionalism to say anything against the man.


(sorry for the repost...feel free to delete, mods)

[tyche]

I would not mind so much if they'd killed Tara to tell a half-decent story. But they didn't.

[VampNo12]

The "Or did it...? Yeah, it did" really gets on my nerves. I mean must he "rub more salt in the wounds", can he even try to be sensitive. Of course not, we need his sarcasm!

I know Amber is too nice of a person to really bad-mouth Joss, but I really would love to know how she feels about her character being shot dead in the heart? Was she truly feeling the Joss love? Because if this is the way he treats characters and actors he loves, I hate to think how he treats the ones he hates.

[Denial Queen]

so to speak.

HE confirmed it and knowing the size of this man's ego, he won't bring her back just to spite us. Probably even give her a new girlfriend to add insult to injury. He's done it before. (see buffy and spike with a soul )

Which is all good in some way 'cause at least there will be no more reason for us to hang around and hope.

well, move along then, nothing more to see here.

[Rane018]

it wasn't just about her being killed off (with a SUCK assed story line to start with, pure fricking bullshit) but the way she was killed. why are they so densly fucking insensitive?

it was such a cheap excuse and such an unimaginative story arc that made no sense whatsoever. how does grief turn to power hunger? if she had wanted to bring tara back i'd understand but that's not at all what happened. it's a sucky storytelling. I'm so sorry i ever paid any attention to that liar.

[WebWarlock]

The man is a prick.

I will take an extreme amount of pleasure in watching "FireFly" fail. I will enjoy hearing how bad the last season of "Buffy" is.

I can't believe I used to defend this arrogant asshole to friends.

Warlock

[bgfilly]

that was the comment that really got to me " or did it" yea ok Joss your an ass plain n simple i could care less about any of your shows anymore. you know i cant even begin to believe i trusted that man for so long i never for once expected any of this but man was i wrong.

[friskylez]

What a dick and a prick and an asshole and a jerk and a cocksu*** and he is loving every minute of being the center of attention...Maybe thats why he killed Tara, he was jealous of all the love she had, wahhhh wahhhh sound like someone whose name starts with an X, oh yea thats right, that character is based on Joss...GROW UP JOSS, see the story arc, be the story arc

[GridMonkey]

He's a butt hole. I can't stand him or his crappy shows. Fucker makes me so pissed off.

[emma peel]

Gee, Joss. Dig yourself a deeper hole. I really wish you hadn't written that, 'cause it's really made feel sicker than I aleady did.
I'll be sure to actively boycott ANYTHING you do from this day on.
I think your career is quickly going down the toilet and that your more than "15 minutes of fame" is about to come to a screeching halt.
Too bad you were so clueless as to the real chemistry Amber and Aly had onscreen.It wasn't just us "evil lesbians" who loved those characters. They gave us something-HOPE, and you,sir, in your infinite wisdom smashed that to pieces for the sake of you little "storyline."
Amber and Aly's careers will flourish and they will comtinue to be loved. I don't think that will happen to you.Janice

[TyRex316]

Wow, someone connected with writing this show being tactless and disrespectful color me NOT surprised. Yeah, o'kay Joss you killed Tara because it's what we need. Well, I figured out that I don't NEED to watch your show.

[emma peel]

Yeah. Glad to know that you love Amber and she knows it.
That's swell...That really pays the bills now that she's evidently unemployed and her character is DEAD,DEAD,DEAD. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Janice

[MaClayMagic]

I didn't need to have Tara killed to get a point across. I didn't need to see the only gay couple to give viewers a decent picture of lesbians torn apart. I really didn't need the stress watching the character I started to watch Buffy for die. But to be told that Joss still loves Amber...gee, makes it all better. Actually, Joss, I believe WE love her more and certainly wouldn't have ended her story so shoddily or so cruelly. What is Willow without Tara? What the hell is the show without these pair? Something I will find very hard to watch again. I really can't stand the stress of this, I had all the agony of last year in the brain suckage but this year, I could just cry constantly. Then he did it. Killed off my heroine. Yeah, Joss, I really needed that. I'm a writer, and I don't care what I think my readers need to read, I give them happy ever after endings because if we want death we can see it in reality too many times. I had a hope for season 7. That is dashed now. Thanks Joss. Guess I needed to be shown that some people just don't care about thier viewers.

[hellmouthhottie20]

Where was this posted?
What a fucker, has he got no respect for his fans or for amber.
I just dont want to belive it, i want to hear from ambers mouth thats taras over (sorry iam soooo in denial)
keep strong kittens.
Caz

[Scout]

"...but the idea that I COULDN'T kill Tara because she was gay is as offensive to me as the idea that I DID kill her because she was gay."

What that says to me is that his ego couldn't stand the thought that Tara was off limits. He had to do it because he wanted to show that he was the one who was in control, rather than the fans or their expectations. I think it ultimately had less to do with the story and more to do with his power trip.

[emma peel]

That's a very good point,Scount.

Janice

[mebe8lisa(d)]

[b:a0943957df] please read the lesbian cliche FAQ thread as linked at the top of the board, it will answer most of your questions.[/b:a0943957df]

[mollyig]

My anger at the show is because of the senselessness of Tara's death. Willow's use of magic and its repercussions had already been dealt with, so the plot of the final episodes was redundant, in my opinion.

I have stated before that the supposed theme of this season "growing up" was never realised. The only "grown up", after the departure of Giles, was Tara, whose maturity and nurturing of Dawn was an example that none of the other Scoobies followed. Buffy was her usual self-involved self. Xander, typically immature and irresponsible. As I said Willow was weak, but learned from the lesson and became responsible and mature. So, the moral of the ME story. Be mature and responsible = die. Be irresponsible and you become a hero.

Molly be bitter!

[Coma123]

Lets compare shall we...

Doug Petrie (Sci-Fi Universe 2/21/00): "Willow and Tara are going to have a good, happy, satisfying relationship. That's something that we're more acutely aware of and we definitely don't want to touch on 'being a lesbian is bad.' We've all seen shows where if you have any kind of gay tendencies, you must be killed or made to suffer for no other reason other than you're gay. We're hyper aware of that, so we're more predisposed to have things work out for Willow and Tara. In fact, if Tara were a guy, I would predict a near 100 per cent chance of a breakup for Willow. The fact that Tara is not a guy may make things work out better, because we can avoid what we feel is this old clich."

Joss Whedon
So I'm REALLY REALLY going to bed. Two things: I actually wasn't aware of the dead/evil lesbian cliche. I wasn't aware of the 'add a young girl in the fifth season' cliche either. I think I don't get out much.

Spot the difference?
One of these men is a compulsive lying egomaniac the other just works for him

[Epicurus]

That man still doesn't get the fucking point.

[Dave V]

Mebe 8 Lisa. Read the Lesbian Cliche FAQ. Please.

I do not think Joss killed Tara and destroyed Willow BECAUSE they are gay. It's not even necessarily THAT he did these things. It's the WAY he did these things. The WAY Tara died was meaningless (this kind, heroic character had no opportunity to show her heroism) and it's proximity to W/T's lovemaking leads to the conclusion (as David Fury admitted) that lesbian sex leads to death and misery. The WAY Willow goes bad is over the top, negates all her character development, and has been done already.

I think Joss did it because he had a twisted vision he wanted to see (Joss has stated that he wanted to see Tara's blood all over Willow) and this was the easiest way he could activate Black Magic Willow. It's cheap, it's nasty and it's bad story-telling.

[StephenDeKnightIsAPrick]

Joss Whedon is a complete and utter fuckwit.

[maudmac]

I can't BELIEVE he's saying he wasn't aware of the cliche!

And I'm with everyone else: It's not necessarily the killing of Tara that's made us so angry. It's the way it was done. It was the Most. Pointless. Character. Death. Ever. It was a death befitting a pointless character. (Which Joss apparently felt Tara was, since she was there most of the season only to facilitate Willow going "Dark Phoenix.")

If Tara had died a noble, honorable, non-cliched death, I might be willing to listen to Joss and his talk about serving the story. But, really, check out the "story" he's serving now. Look at it! It's so flawed, who the hell would WANT to serve it?

I would be [i:fdd556c8a4] embarrassed[/i:fdd556c8a4] to serve that story.

[Cici]

AAAH!!! Joss killed Tara ...... JOSS JOSS!!!!!
I cant believe that! BECAUSE the gay thing? ... or..... argh.....

Im sour ...... really sour.... i have no understanding for that. sorry.

[Sela]

Uh, thanks Joss for stating the obvious. I didn't get that when you shot a bullet through Tara's heart and had her blood splatter all over Willow's shirt. I didn't get it when Willow summoned Osiris only to be rejected. I didn't get it when Dawn found Tara's body. I didn't get it when Xander and Buffy found Tara's body. And I sure as hell didn't get it when they rolled Tara out of the house in a body bag. But now that YOU have spoken, it's all sooo clear to me.

Listen, I know the guy likes Amber. I know he brought us Willow and Tara, but to claim he didn't know about the cliche is insulting. THAT'S offensive to me. I wish I could say I was surprised by his attitude, but given the way the writer's have presented themselves after Tara's death, I expected it. The only thing I can do now is turn the t.v. off.

The only thing I've gotten from this whole mess is that I should never ever invest that much in a television show ever again. I should never trust that any one group of people KNOW what I need. I should never believe anything those "Hollywood" types say ever again. Later, Joss, ME, and Buffy. Wish I could say I'll miss you, but the truth is, I won't.

--Sela

[drlloyd11]

Thank god its over..I dont have to hope or worry or think about it anymore...
Scout is right, its all about ego...His mammoth "artist" ego.
I have deleted all my spoilers contacts from my mail and IM. I wont be bringing anymore news...
I am done..
I hope one day, I get the chance to tell Joss what I think..scartch that
I hope I never meet him ever.,,