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Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

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Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rally » Tue May 21, 2002 8:41 am

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This is it, the last Succubus Club for the entire summer! Holy crap! This week, for the third year in a row, we've got Buffy writer/producer Jane Espenson live in the studio to explain the season to us as well as discuss the season finale Two To Go/Grave. Not only that, but we'll be airing for three hours. Think you can handle it? So tune in an hour early, at 5pm (PACIFIC), and get comfy. We'll also have a special summer announcement!

Given the questions that we've received the past two weeks, we think we have a good idea what wants to be asked of Jane, so we're requesting that no questions be submitted unless they're extremely Jane-specific. If you have one of those kinds of questions, send them in to jane@thesuccubusclub.com. Thanks

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You all know the routine by now, I will do ripping and transcribing as per the last two weeks.
Rally
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Sheridan » Tue May 21, 2002 9:30 am

Thanks [b:0428065788] Rally[/b:0428065788] I'd like to think that since this is after the finale we will get some straight answers, still wouldn't put money on it though. :(
Sheridan
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby AutumnT » Tue May 21, 2002 9:32 am

Someone needs to ask her why the guy that played a corpse for an episode on Angel got a guest star credit and Amber did not.
AutumnT
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Ange » Tue May 21, 2002 10:16 am

That's too bad that it's Jane Espenson who is there. Because she has done very good W/T episode. We can't really tell her anything wrong. She is good.

But she is maybe, one of the nicest too. And she won't laugh and won't care about Tara.

Ange.
Ange
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby tommo » Tue May 21, 2002 11:19 am

I'm expecting more of the same, to be honest. Although I do like Jane a whole lot. I hope to god she doesn't disappoint me this time.
tommo
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Kendahl897 » Tue May 21, 2002 11:23 am

I just want to know why ME felt the need to lie and mislead us (Tara fans) over the past year? A simple ' NO COMMENT' would have sufficed....I just want her to know how hurt and betrayed we feel, not only by the blatant use of the cliche, but by the lies and deception as well................
Kendahl897
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby urnofosiris » Tue May 21, 2002 11:26 am

[quote:bc9bc1ded5][b:bc9bc1ded5][i:bc9bc1ded5]Quote:[/i:bc9bc1ded5][/b:bc9bc1ded5]

Someone needs to ask her why the guy that played a corpse for an episode on Angel got a guest star credit and Amber did not.

[/quote:bc9bc1ded5]

Is that so???? I did not know that, I do not follow Angel. This just keeps getting worse and worse. Oh yeah, what a lovely way to honor she who was sent from the heavens.
urnofosiris
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Sheridan » Tue May 21, 2002 11:32 am

[quote:965e230b0a][b:965e230b0a][i:965e230b0a]Quote:[/i:965e230b0a][/b:965e230b0a]
but by the lies and deception as well................
[/quote:965e230b0a]

To me that is what hurts the most, if we hadn't been reassured so often we could have steeled ourselves, perhaps even been able to accept it on some level, but no they basically told us we had nothing to worry about, ME deiberately set us up.
Sheridan
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby BBOvenGuy » Tue May 21, 2002 11:58 am

I'm not entirely sure Jane is the person to ask about the lies and deception. She didn't do any of it herself, and I don't really think it's fair to put her in the position of having to apologize for her bosses.

Jane always treated W/T well, and I personally wouldn't want to repay what she's done by sticking her in an awkward position.
BBOvenGuy
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rally » Tue May 21, 2002 12:03 pm

Regardless, the show has already said they have more than enough questions left over from the previous weeks. I think over all W/T fans did a good job of posing questions for DF that elaborated on things posed to and spoken of by SDK. While the S/B questions were more crap about the stupid t-shirt, and I will certainly knock my self unconscious if they ask that question [i:f5a3aed10a] again[/i:f5a3aed10a].

At any rate, my point being, in order to get a new question in for Jane, it will need to be something good. I also vaguely recall something from SDK's interview where he mentioned discussing something about the W/T arc with Jane. So it will be interesting to see what she has to say.
Rally
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rane018 » Tue May 21, 2002 1:59 pm

SDK's interview where he mentioned discussing something about the W/T arc with Jane. So it will be interesting to see what she has to say.

Hopefully it had something to do with the blaringly obvious lesbian death cliche. she worked on ellen for goodness sake. not that it helped any...
Rane018
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rally » Tue May 21, 2002 2:42 pm

Ok here is the bit where SDK mentions the conversation with JE.

---

C: Were you worried at all about the impact of Tara's death, at all? I mean either on the Gay communtity or her fans, were you even, did you even talk about it.
S: Well sure, sure... we brought it up about...yeah can we really kill off the ah the great lesbian character, who's having a wonderful relationship.
C: Tell us about that conversation please.
[b:4b79d23b7b] S: This was basically conversations with me and Petrie and Espenson and ultimately we you know we came to the conclusion that we have treated her as a person, on the show, and uh if that means she gets killed than she gets killed. No special treatment for anybody.[/b:4b79d23b7b]
C: Fair enough, that's all I can ask for. Um.
K: Ummm.
S: It certainly wasn't a malicious act, like oh, let's kill the lesbian.
K: Or let's kill Tara.
C: And I don't know how many different ways you can say that to explain that to people. Nothing was done to hurt a certain faction of fans.
S: Absolutely not and again she had never turned gay or realized that she was gay uh her boyfriend would have gotten killed.
C: It's about Willow.
S: It's about Willow.
K: It just happened to be that Tara was the one she was with.
S: And to be completely honest it worked better as a story that the one good, sweet, level-headed person on the show gets it.
C: Ya know and it's really sad too, Kitty's mentioned all season long too how she's been the only really grounded one, all season long. Everyone else has been all flying off everywhere, she was the one taking care of Dawn. She was the one taking care of the house, you know she did all that.
K: She was the one that Buffy could confide in. She was the one that...
C: Right.
S: Right.
K: She was the one there when Buffy's mother died, Buffy considers her a very good friend and she's a great character.
C: And with Giles gone she filled and with Joyce gone she filled in very motherly, a parental role in a way. So to have all that gone does that fill into the growing up theme of this season. Did that play a part at all?
S: The death of a loved one is definetly part of it. There are so many issues with the growing up theme. But yeah, the death of a loved one is definetly a huge part, I mean it's definetly a thing that can separate you and your younger years from your later years.

---
Rally
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Dumbsaint » Tue May 21, 2002 2:48 pm

Okay. Belly rumblin's.

Can we just not let Jane (or Rebecca, for that matter) be on SC? Ever? Lock them up and keep them writing away, preferably on other, more enjoyable shows. I don't know if I can take any more writerly disillusionment this week. Steve had to his credit only one killer W/T line that I adored, the timberless bit. So his fall into asshole-dom wasn't as hard for me to take as it might have otherwise been. And Fury, well, granted he was more respectful, but equally as frustrating- but I tend not to dig his eps much, either. So again, not so much with the pain. But Jane... please. Not Jane too. For the love of all things smutty, let her be as nice a person as I would expect her to be.
Dumbsaint
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby xita » Tue May 21, 2002 2:52 pm

I know how you feel Julia. I was so grateful Aly was not on tv last night. I could not have taken one word from her that proclaimed how great this show is.
xita
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rally » Tue May 21, 2002 2:54 pm

I wouldn't worry too much about Jane. I tend to think that Kitty and Candy will lay off her with most of the W/T stuff. Also Jane has done the show before, where ask DeKnight I don't believe had and Fury had definetly not. Also Jane is not responsible for any of the scripts late into this season and ya know, they are going to be discussing two hours of Buffy. It's their last show of season.

Overall I think it will be much lighter on the questions and controversy than the past two weeks.
Rally
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby roamin » Tue May 21, 2002 4:47 pm

Thanks to Rally for all of he transcribing. You are a saint.
If you lived in my neck of the woods, I'd buy you a drink.
roamin
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Killin Joke » Tue May 21, 2002 5:06 pm

I did NOT need "straight" answers... I wanted "gay" ones, dammit ! Ah well, what roamin said: I'd buy you a Belgian beer, Rally, if you lived in my hellhole /having way too much coffee myself lately, and not the good kind -> nervous wreck signing off/
Killin Joke
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby tommo » Tue May 21, 2002 6:12 pm

I wonder if they'll be asking her about the finale at all? That should take up all of two minutes. I'm actually interested to know what Jane has to say about Willow and Tara, for better or worse. At least I'll know where she stands then.
tommo
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rane018 » Tue May 21, 2002 6:45 pm

i dont even know where they air this show

eta: LOL! i'm a BONEHEAD! my brain is all mush. i totally forgot the thing was on wednesday not tuesday. sorry. my total bad! hehe
Rane018
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby tommo » Tue May 21, 2002 10:09 pm

Actually, scratch my earlier posts. I'm not interested in hearing anything more about this show now. Not a thing.
tommo
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby xita » Tue May 21, 2002 10:10 pm

they don't care.. no point in asking anything.
xita
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Anita Iowa » Tue May 21, 2002 10:24 pm

I personally think we should ask her a ton
of Gilmore Girls related questions, like, will
Rory pick Jess or Dean, or, will Luke and
Lorelai hook up next season? And ask them
w/o referencing Buffy AT ALL. :evil
Anita Iowa
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby emma peel » Wed May 22, 2002 1:18 am

I'd be interested to see what she might say about Will and Tara. If they keep digging themselves further into the doodoo,they can keep giving us good quotes for ammunition.

If anyone will listen.sigh. I hope somewill, and make Joss look like the hypocrite and arrogant jerk I feel he is.

Janice :puke ( I love this emoticon)!
emma peel
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby themagicpixie » Wed May 22, 2002 5:01 am

Re: the death of a loved one helps us grow up.

Er... what? Willow and Dawn are the only ones to react like they really give a damn Tara is dead, and react by trying to end the world, and becoming off-the-scale whiny, respectively.

Say what? Is everyone going to be more mature next season because Tara got shot dead?

Joyce died last season of "natural causes" and the friends of her daughter, in my opinion, looked overly upset about a friend's mother dying. This season, Tara dies, and Xander looks confused. Buffy gets sanctimonious. That's it. What do you bet she gets mentioned like, once next season?

Joyce died. That was the way Buffy (the main character) was going to grow up. There has been one major permanent death. And now... they are doing it again. Why? We get the point.

Tara dies so Willow can learn what, exactly? Not to be too happy because people have guns?

What next? I guess Anya should watch her back, Xander might hit puberty soon and then she'll be in trouble.

Anyone Giles loves should watch out. Sure he's 40 or so, but he needs to get up, whack someone he loves, that will do it.

They killed Tara because they wanted to kill another character and thought her the most expendable, and that's it. I really don't need to be patronised by a TV show like this.
themagicpixie
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rally » Wed May 22, 2002 2:26 pm

These are live, off the cuff, not meant to be 100% accurate:

C=Candy K=Kitty J=Jane

---

K: Right next to me in the hotseat, Jane Espenson.

C: You didn't right a lot at this season.

J: I wrote a lot of episodes early in the season. I was just sitting there twiddling my thumbs. I did the four part Buffy comic Haunted, that took some of my time. We are hoping we all get more this year with Buffy, Angel and Firefly.

C: Isn't like a Western.

J: It's very much a western, there are horses in the pilot.

C: What entailed the co writing process, you seem to be the only one involved in co-writing.

J: Cause I am the one always volunteering, if you need help.

J: I wrote Mummy Hand and Kitten Poker part of Life Serial. I like writing the comedies.

C: Your first episode this season, Afterlife was serious.

J: Normally I would be thrid in the rotation, Marti, Fury and then me. Joss said I could wait for a comedy, but you probably want to take this one. So I though ok, we'll give it a try. I had a wonderful time writing it. It turned out very well, I was pleased with it.

C: Best one liner - Spike's where he says "every night I save you."

J: Thank you, normally Joss gets all those good lines. Marti really liked that scene and I was very fortunate it stayed the way I wrote it. Joss wrote the Anya cutting herself scene.

C: Questions about DMP and AF. Jane can only stay until 7, but we will be on until 8.

J: And you guys need to talk about me. I dyed my hair blonde, it's quite shocking.

C: She went blue once. Ok, about Afterlife. When Buffy went to Spike's crypt in Afterlife, why do you think she is there. What is going through Buffy's mind?

J: She went there and sat with him there, right. Um, I think she didn't know why she was there, except she wanted to be with someone who wasn't demanding anything of her.

J: Buffy doesn't open up to people. She doesn't like to show what she is thinking. She tends to be very closed off. I think the most brilliant thing we did this season was her insane delusion. It makes so much sense when you think about it.

J: I think it makes so much sense because Buffy is always in her own head. It didn't really not work out, the fact that she can't love him has so much more to do with her than him.

J: And of course anytime we talk about B/S relationship, that it's a very bad thing. I like Spike and I was very worried about the attempted rape, that is not something you play around with. It's very hard to come back from. You have to be very careful with it. We are not saying anything about humans, when you see that Spike looked into himself and saw that he wanted to go get a soul. We knew the whole time he was going to get a soul, the chip was an intentional mislead.

J: When we are vague, we are vague for a reason.

*More talk about Spike soul stuff

C: If you make that he went to go get a soul for her, it makes it romatic.

J: Yes that makes it very dicey. A human guy that says I saw the badness in myself, might not be the same thing. We have to be careful not to say that. He is a vampire with a soul, not a human.

C: That is the most interesting question, would it be fair to say that Buffy / Spike and Angel / Cordy are becoming a lot alike.

J: You can make that argument. We are certainly fighting that. Suppose we don't change Cordy, because it's too Buffized. Then we screw Cordy out of being a strong female. About souling Spike, it's only like Angel if we let it be. They have a much different relationship than Buffy / Angel had. What keeps Buffy and Spike from being together is their natures. They are thwarted by who they are. To me it feels very different. We don't report a formula. I think we suceeded in making it different.

*Break
Rally
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Epicurus » Wed May 22, 2002 2:30 pm

[i:d7ebc5e2c8]"Joss wrote the Anya cutting herself scene."[/i:d7ebc5e2c8]

Why doesn't that suprise me?
Epicurus
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby AutumnT » Wed May 22, 2002 2:34 pm

I will say this. I like the way Jane is actually explaining things instead of trying to just make herself sound funny or cool. So far I appreciate the clarity with which she is describing things.

And the bit about the sharing writing credits was interesting.
AutumnT
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rally » Wed May 22, 2002 2:43 pm

*More on Spike soul stuff

J: He's loves bitch.

C: Scene in Seeing Red, in his crypt talking with Clem.

J: We love Clem.

C: Who doesn't love Clem. People want Sophie and Clem together.

J: We should put him with Dawn.

J: There were a number of Clem scenes we added in late, because the episodes ran short.

C: Doublemeat Palace, was the Demon deliberate?

J: It was an enormous penis, but we did not realize that at the time. We thought it was going to look eel like. It wasn't intentional. Would we have a lesbian cut off a giant penis? No, that's icky. But once it happened we felt free to comment on it. We had the W/T conversation about it, that I thought went really well. It's called hanging a lantern on it. You have the characters point it out.

J: We don't want to mock the show or its characters, but we will do, that's a funny thing. You can think it's a cheat, to point something out. So I was very pleased with whoever wrote that exchange. Might have been Drew.

:rolleyes

J: We did not intend that to look like a penis.

C: Who decided on a fast food restraunt. Did someone have specific experience in fast food.

J: Everyone did but me. Marti had done a lot, worked at McDonalds. We almost backed off it when Joss pointed out she had waitressed.

J: Food is funny. I love food. No coincidence that Bandcandy and Gingerbread are also mine.

C: Lets talk about W/T. The whole Tara death and Willow what happened to her. Obviously people are upset.

J: As we intended, we we're upset ourselves. I didn't think Joss was going to be able to do it. We really struggled.

K: How do you feel about the backlash?

J: I wasn't aware of it, but we talked about it. What happens is one is introduced to be killed. She had been on the show, she was not brought in to be cannon fodder. She was not gay bashed, she was shot accidently. We did talk about, we're doing that thing, we're killing the lesbian. But it didn't feel that way to us, because she wasn't that lesbian character.

C: But Willow went evil.

J: She went evil out of deep loving grief.

J: I think we are shirking ourselves if Willow goes out and hooks up with a boy.

C: People want to know, the backlash, they are going to be tuning out.

J: People always say they are not going to watch anymore and our numbers stay the same.

C: But the numbers are down this year.

J: Yeah but our boy numbers are up. We certainly feel we did a really bang up season. We really like this season, we feel we did a really good job. Even if you take the musical out I think it's a really good season.

C: What about next season?

J: More funny, more standalones.

J: I am distressed to hear people are going to tune out. Tara was not our only gay character. Willow is still around and is a good role model. There is no reason to say we won't be seeing a little or more of um Tara or something resembling Tara.

C: She is picking her words very carefully.

J: If people are saying they are tuning out because they miss Amber Benson well...mumble mumble mumble.

K: Is Willow going to go to jail?

J: Um no she doesn't go to jail. She is somewhere interesting when we open the season. She is up somewhere doing something with someone we know.

*Break
Rally
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby Rally » Wed May 22, 2002 2:47 pm

Ya know we talked about we didnt talk about, make up your fucking minds. Either they did talk about it or they didn't, a different fucking story every week.
Rally
 


Jane Espenson at The Succubus Club - Wed 5/22 - 5PM PST

Postby imperfectly » Wed May 22, 2002 2:50 pm

SEEEEE!!!!

[quote:e10e692444][b:e10e692444][i:e10e692444]Quote:[/i:e10e692444][/b:e10e692444]
We did talk about, we're doing that thing, we're killing the lesbian.
[/quote:e10e692444]Finally! Someone who is honest about it. They knew the clich, they knew its implications, but they did it.

Edited to add: Oh goodie. The boy number are up. Is that why we saw the smackdown Buffy-Willow fight and juvenile homophobic humor? Thanks, for the catering, it definitely improved the show's quality...

edited again to add: What the f***?
[quote:e10e692444][b:e10e692444][i:e10e692444]Quote:[/i:e10e692444][/b:e10e692444]
J: If people are saying they are tuning out because they miss Amber Benson well...mumble mumble mumble.
K: Is Willow going to go to jail?
J: Um no she doesn't go to jail. She is somewhere interesting when we open the season. She is up somewhere doing something with someone we know.
[/quote:e10e692444]Is this a desperate attempt to get the lesbian fans to keep watching?
imperfectly
 

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