The Star Witches Saga: EPISODE II Chapter Ten Now Up

[grimlock72]

Hmmm... I find it dissappointing that Jedi (who are supposed to be elite warriors, widely feared and respected after all) let themselves be pushed around by such pathetic critters. Strange talking critters too even It's almost work to understand what their leader is saying.

I wonder what is so nice about the Gungan and their world that the Impere wants to capture it. Doesn't look like that should pose much of a problem, certainly not now Jar-Jar is among them, heh

Spear vs. Blaster ... now what would win, hmm...

Tara's dream/vision really doesn't tell us that much, just that she fears a battle versus a demon-like Jedi/Sith type enemy. Increase the likelyhood of her freezing up when such a fight eventually occurs, that is worrysome. It's good see Tara not closing herself of from Willow when they're alone, it's wise to keep some distance in public I think.

Since I've forgotten most of what occured in Movie1 I'm interested to see how they end up with the two other Jedi again.

That would make it four Jedi vs. one Darth Maul though... hmm..

Grimmy

[Willowtree252]

I am enjoying this story. It seems you know your stuff and I cant wait for more

[caz]

Excellent! I was beginning to feel really sorry for Willow. Especially when the poor girl thought that Tara had closed herself off. But, once they were alone together, Tara proved her wrong - thank god!

I'm not sure what to make of the Gungans. I'm pretty sure that they are going to blame Willow & Tara for the attack. Our girls are gonna have to do something spectacular to save the day!

Looking forward to your next update.

Caz

[Alcy]

Okay, I can't say that the Gungans are my favourite characters in the Star Wars universe...in fact, they're probably my least favourite - I think it's their floppy ears - but you've nailed their dialouge really nicely.

It didn't take long for Tara's defences to come back up slightly. Given that she's a Jedi Master, I was expecting them to come back up all the way and for Willow to have an uphill battle to tear them down again. Now that she's let Willow in, it's going to be interesting to see where they move to from here. I have a feeling it's going to cause them both a lot of soul searching and sleepless nights.

Can't wait for the next post...lookin' forward to some action!

[AlysonGoddess]

grrrrr cliffhanger.. but ill get over it. Loved the update!!! this story keeps getting better and better please update soon ill be waiting here patiently!!
Erin

[Useful_Oxymoron]

Whoops, missed a chapter due to my excessive laziness. :( Sorry about that. As for chapter 10, I loved the aftermath of their kiss. Ah, such desire fulfilled after so long a time of waiting. Must be very nice for them. The story of Willow wondering through halls was cute too.

So, our girl has been dreaming about a certain 'demonic' creature carrying their lightsabers, ey? Well, he's nothing compared to a certain mechanical creature that carries around lightsabers for a hobby. No doubt she'll be dreaming about him too.

And speaking of mechanical creatures, I'm happy to have given you an idea for an HK-47 related plotline.

Gungans... I might be a minority here, but I always liked gungans. They're silly characters, and I have a penchant for silly characters. That's why I love the droids too.

Updatey goodness soon?

[beanie]

Okay, so I'll admit it. I'm not a big Star Wars person. I know pretty much squat about Star Wars. Probably negative squat. But I gotta say, you've certainly reeled me in. I guess maybe cuz I don't know that much about Star Wars, but I like the Gungans. Your use of their "dialogue" is cute! Don't know if you're going for cute, but hehe cuteness! And Willow's hesitant actions around Tara are cute. She' so unsure and tentative. YAY!

Now, they're under attack. What next?

-beanie

[SithLordWiccan]

Grimmy:

Hmmm... I find it dissappointing that Jedi (who are supposed to be elite warriors, widely feared and respected after all) let themselves be pushed around by such pathetic critters.

Well, Tara and Willow aren't letting themselves get pushed around. Tara's seeing this as an opportunity to find saftey.

Strange talking critters too even It's almost work to understand what their leader is saying.

I'll take that as a compliment, thanks.

I wonder what is so nice about the Gungan and their world that the Impere wants to capture it.

It's all part of PalpiSidious' master plan.

Tara's dream/vision really doesn't tell us that much, just that she fears a battle versus a demon-like Jedi/Sith type enemy. Increase the likelyhood of her freezing up when such a fight eventually occurs, that is worrysome.

I know. Isn't dramatic tension cool.

Since I've forgotten most of what occured in Movie1 I'm interested to see how they end up with the two other Jedi again.

That would make it four Jedi vs. one Darth Maul though... hmm..

Maybe. Maybe not.

Dianneswillowtree:

I am enjoying this story. It seems you know your stuff and I cant wait for more

Glad to see you're enjoying the story. And yeah, I do know my stuff.

caz:

I was beginning to feel really sorry for Willow. Especially when the poor girl thought that Tara had closed herself off. But, once they were alone together, Tara proved her wrong - thank god!

Yeah. Willow thought she's screwed things up so much that it was almost a relief for her to find out that Tara still loves her.

I'm not sure what to make of the Gungans. I'm pretty sure that they are going to blame Willow & Tara for the attack. Our girls are gonna have to do something spectacular to save the day!

Well, you'll find out soon.

Alcy:

Okay, I can't say that the Gungans are my favourite characters in the Star Wars universe...in fact, they're probably my least favourite - I think it's their floppy ears - but you've nailed their dialouge really nicely.

Glad you think so.

It didn't take long for Tara's defences to come back up slightly. Given that she's a Jedi Master, I was expecting them to come back up all the way and for Willow to have an uphill battle to tear them down again.

I liked doing that. Tara's let her guard down just enough to accept Willow's love, yet not enough to let the situation blind her to what's going on.

Now that she's let Willow in, it's going to be interesting to see where they move to from here. I have a feeling it's going to cause them both a lot of soul searching and sleepless nights.

Count on it.

AlysonGoddess: Yeah, I hate cliffhangers, too. (I consider the phrase "to be continued" the worst phrase in the English language) But it does provide the opporunity for some good drama, doesn't it? Glad you like the story and think its getting better.

Useful_Oxymoron:

As for chapter 10, I loved the aftermath of their kiss. Ah, such desire fulfilled after so long a time of waiting. Must be very nice for them.

Yeah, it was. Of course, it did get them captured...

The story of Willow wondering through halls was cute too.

Thanks.

So, our girl has been dreaming about a certain 'demonic' creature carrying their lightsabers, ey? Well, he's nothing compared to a certain mechanical creature that carries around lightsabers for a hobby. No doubt she'll be dreaming about him too.

Yup on both counts.

And speaking of mechanical creatures, I'm happy to have given you an idea for an HK-47 related plotline.

Oh, don't worry. You put the plot bunny in my head, so he is gonna show up.

Updatey goodness soon?

Hopefully.

Beanie:

Okay, so I'll admit it. I'm not a big Star Wars person. I know pretty much squat about Star Wars. Probably negative squat. But I gotta say, you've certainly reeled me in.

I gotta say that I enjoy roping in the non fans. It gives me some pleasure to say that I can get people who hate SW to enjoy this fic.

And Willow's hesitant actions around Tara are cute. She' so unsure and tentative. YAY!

I'm glad you enjoy that. I enjoy writing it, too.

Chapter Twelve has been sent to Chris. Update to be posted as soon as I get it back.

[Darth Pacula]

G'day, Sith.

Chapter Twelve has been sent to Chris. Update to be posted as soon as I get it back.

Are you still sticking with that tired old excuse? Sorry, couldn't help myself.

But enough of my dubious sense of humor. Bring on the feedback!

What with all that poking with Cesta's (notice I am studiously avoiding the opportunity for an off-color joke here) I suppose Willow and Tara should be glad that they don't seem to be using the electrical shock ability. They did do that, didn't they? Or am I just imagining stuff?

I'm feeling a bit disappointed in Tara though. For someone who's supposed to be an accomplished Jedi master, she seems to be letting her fears run away with her, which is never a good idea according to the Jedi Order. She seemed positively meek and cowed before Boss Nass, which seems more appropriate for cannon Tara than Jedi Tara. I suppose it might have been a cover, but still ...

It's good that Tara isn't go to use their predicament as an excuse to close down emotionally again. Personally, that seems as bad as being ruled by your emotions. Jedi and Sith; at different ends of the emotional spectrum, and neither one particularly balanced for being so.

I'm looking forward to the prospect of some proper action again though.

Cheers,
Paul.

[Artemis]

Gungans - nice to see them not portrayed as comic relief. I'm enjoying seeing these 'missing parts' of Phantom Menace filled in, and it'll be neat to see how Willow and Tara play a part in it.

I liked Tara's attitude to Willow as well - that she didn't retreat into her shell, as Willow feared she would, shows that she's accepted the progress her relationship with Willow has made, and is keeping that as part of herself, not backing off from it at the first hurdle. Character evolution is neat.

Tara's dreams are worrying though. It's not unknown for Jedi to be prescient, of course - the thing is, will Tara take this as a sign of impending doom, or an opportunity to avoid the tragedy she's dreaming of? Her willingness to hold onto her bond with Willow notwithstanding, Tara's confidence in herself as a Jedi seems to be shaken. Still, it looks like there's a straight-up battle on hand, with no moral ambiguity - maybe jumping in and kicking a bit of arse on behalf of the downtrodden Gungans will boost Tara a bit? While Tara's confidence, long-term, will have to come from within, there's nothing like a bit of helping the helpless to perk you up.

[FineyMcFine]

Like others, I was surprised and gratified that Tara didn't go back on her emotional openness with Willow and in fact seemed to be the one to reassure Willow when they were in their quarters. And Willow apologized for what happened - that is quite something, because I would have guessed that she wasn't really sorry. But I don't see a Jedi in training making pro forma apologies.

Tara's dreams seem to point toward Willow falling off the Force wagon and turning to the dark side. Say it isn't so!

[SithLordWiccan]

Paul:

Are you still sticking with that tired old excuse? Sorry, couldn't help myself.

I should probably point out that I wrote Chapter Twelve when I was supposed to be doing homework. And if I get lip like this again, I probably won't post it until September or somthing. (I kid, I kid.)

What with all that poking with Cesta's (notice I am studiously avoiding the opportunity for an off-color joke here) I suppose Willow and Tara should be glad that they don't seem to be using the electrical shock ability. They did do that, didn't they? Or am I just imagining stuff?

Grr. I forgot that they did that. Well, I did write that they felt uncomfortable about it, so I guess that covers me...somewhat.

I'm feeling a bit disappointed in Tara though. For someone who's supposed to be an accomplished Jedi master, she seems to be letting her fears run away with her, which is never a good idea according to the Jedi Order. She seemed positively meek and cowed before Boss Nass, which seems more appropriate for cannon Tara than Jedi Tara. I suppose it might have been a cover, but still ...

Well, I think I've made it clear before how Jedi Tara, much like Cannon Tara, is still "meek and cowed", despite being all powerful. And if you don't buy that, then think of the situation she's in. Do you really think that Jedi Tara, as powerful as she is, would feel comfortable dealing with the dangers of what's going on around her alone? (Yes, Willow's with her, but she doesn't want to endanger her, either...)

It's good that Tara isn't go to use their predicament as an excuse to close down emotionally again. Personally, that seems as bad as being ruled by your emotions. Jedi and Sith; at different ends of the emotional spectrum, and neither one particularly balanced for being so.

You might think that's a good idea. Then again, maybe not.

I'm looking forward to the prospect of some proper action again though.

Oh, don't worry. We'll see some action next chapter.

Chris:

Gungans - nice to see them not portrayed as comic relief.

Thanks. I never really liked them that way, either. I figured that, since they were portrayed in not so much a flattering light, I figured it would be good to see them from the opposite side of the coin.

I'm enjoying seeing these 'missing parts' of Phantom Menace filled in, and it'll be neat to see how Willow and Tara play a part in it.

Yeah. I figured that, since so much happened off screen, it would be nice to explore it a bit in this fic. (I always found it interesting how Boss Nass says that the Jedi brought the droids to Otoh Gunga, and yet they were long gone when it actually happened.)

I liked Tara's attitude to Willow as well - that she didn't retreat into her shell, as Willow feared she would, shows that she's accepted the progress her relationship with Willow has made, and is keeping that as part of herself, not backing off from it at the first hurdle. Character evolution is neat.

Yeah. I figured that, given where I had been going up until now, that would be the most obvious direction people would expect me to go. Of course, I'm not exactly known for following the beaten path, so...well, you know.

Tara's dreams are worrying though. It's not unknown for Jedi to be prescient, of course - the thing is, will Tara take this as a sign of impending doom, or an opportunity to avoid the tragedy she's dreaming of?

Well, she's definitlly feeling the dreams as a sign of impending doom. (remember how Anakin felt in ROTS?) Of course, before she could probably find a way to deal with it that wasn't too emotional. Of course, now that she's opened up to Willow, any situation in which she feels threatened is going to have her on edge and doing whatever she can to prevent it.

Her willingness to hold onto her bond with Willow notwithstanding, Tara's confidence in herself as a Jedi seems to be shaken. Still, it looks like there's a straight-up battle on hand, with no moral ambiguity - maybe jumping in and kicking a bit of arse on behalf of the downtrodden Gungans will boost Tara a bit? While Tara's confidence, long-term, will have to come from within, there's nothing like a bit of helping the helpless to perk you up.

Well, since you got Chapter Twelve (I'm assuming) you'll see how I've handled that bit. I think I've done a good job but, of course, I'm always willing to listen to improvements.

Sally:

Like others, I was surprised and gratified that Tara didn't go back on her emotional openness with Willow and in fact seemed to be the one to reassure Willow when they were in their quarters.

Again, I gotta say how proud I am of this little misconception. It's nice that I can make my readers think one thing and then pull the wool over their eyes.

And Willow apologized for what happened - that is quite something, because I would have guessed that she wasn't really sorry.

Well, Willow just wants to impress Tara, and so she wouldn't be too terribly happy about doing anything that would upset her. (Remember what happened with the AAT way back at the beginning of the fic? That'll be brought up again in the next chapter.)

Tara's dreams seem to point toward Willow falling off the Force wagon and turning to the dark side. Say it isn't so!

Maybe...or maybe not. I'm not gonna tell ya. While it is true that

Spoiler:

I have plans to send one of them to the Dark Side

, I'm leaving enough clues around to keep you guessing. And besides, its not going to happen now, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Emms]

Niiiiice, Sith...

I'm glad Tara stayed open and didn't shut herself down. (which surprised Willow--in a good way)

but the end has me worried. They are under attack? but they only just got captured. (they are still captured, aren't they?...I was having a hard time following the dialogue for a minute there)

xoxo
Emms

[SithLordWiccan]

Emms: Glad you liked it.

but the end has me worried. They are under attack? but they only just got captured. (they are still captured, aren't they?...I was having a hard time following the dialogue for a minute there)

They were captured. But Boss Nass agreed to let them stay until sunrise, after which they were to leave. Unfortunately, the droids decided to make an appearance.

[CaptMurdock]

I like how this is progressing.

I do feel, as above, that Tara's confidence issues cut across her believability as a Jedi Master. Nevertheless the fascination of the setting the two of them are in is more than enough to keep me interested.

Looking forward to more!

[SithLordWiccan]

CaptMurdock:

I do feel, as above, that Tara's confidence issues cut across her believability as a Jedi Master.

I honestly don't understand why people are having a problem with my handling of Tara's character. This sort of thing was always a part of her character...at least up until "Family". Is it the way I'm handling it? Does it seem out of character for her in some way?

I'd really appreciate some insight as to what I'm apparently doing wrong.

[MochaVamp]

I honestly don't understand why people are having a problem with my handling of Tara's character. This sort of thing was always a part of her character...at least up until "Family". Is it the way I'm handling it? Does it seem out of character for her in some way?

I am enjoying the struggle Tara is going through. Frankly, I have always been interested in the struggle that someone must go through to become a Jedi. Every Jedi must have some type of issue that they must struggle with in order to met the standards required. Plus, I like the fact that you comment on the strict code of behavior, that may or may not be benefical for the Jedi Knights. The Star War sagas show characters who clearly at some point struggled to meet the standard.

[SithLordWiccan]

MochaVamp:

I am enjoying the struggle Tara is going through. Frankly, I have always been interested in the struggle that someone must go through to become a Jedi. Every Jedi must have some type of issue that they must struggle with in order to met the standards required. Plus, I like the fact that you comment on the strict code of behavior, that may or may not be benefical for the Jedi Knights. The Star War sagas show characters who clearly at some point struggled to meet the standard.

You totally hit the hammer right on the nail, MochaVamp. As I stated earlier, my intention in this fic was to start Tara off as being much like she was in Season 4: a rather shy and introverted individual of great talent who closed off from much of the world around her because of the circumstances of her birth (which most Jedi wouldn't know, but her Master told to her because he thought she had a right to know.)

Now, unlike Buffy Canon Tara, Star Witches Jedi Tara has had a few close relationships. Aside from Nejaa Halcyon (who I can guarantee we'll meet in Episode II), she's formed friendships with Yoda and Mace Windu, although, being the modest girl that she is, sees them more as teachers than as contemporaries. She also respects Qui-Gon for his rather...unconventional ways.

Of course, the only one to get through her defenses has been Willow, and it is only to her that she acts very much like herself. Of course, she had to struggle to keep herself from allowing that friendship to go too far, but as has already been established, it's kinda too late. For better or for worse, Willow has broken Tara down. It remains to be seen, however, what impact that will have.

[Katez0r]

I don't think they are saying you're getting Tara wrong, just that canon Tara's shyness and lack of self-confidence are not as believable in a Jedi Master.

[SithLordWiccan]

Katez0r:

I don't think they are saying you're getting Tara wrong, just that canon Tara's shyness and lack of self-confidence are not as believable in a Jedi Master.

Yes, that is true. But frankly, the Jedi as portrayed in the movies, for the most part, didn't appear as if they had any real character flaws. (Well, aside from the obvious one that bit their collective asses in Episode III, of course.) But basically, your average Jedi is treated like some "higher-than-thou, omnipotent, can't-do-no-wrong" character.

In fanfiction, that sort of person is called a "Mary Sue". And what makes Willow and Tara (moreso Tara, given how she was in her early appearances) so interesting to write in this context is that it allows me to treat them as different, yet maintain what it was that made us all fall in love with them in the first place. That, I think, was rather well explained in this chapter, with Tara's line:

"We may be Jedi, but we’re also people. And people have their flaws.”

I can assure you that all the plot threads I'm setting up will pay off later, though to go into any further detail about it would be to risk revealing much more than I want to right now. You'll just have to believe me when I say that what happens now will pay off later.

[Darth Pacula]

G'day, Sith.

Well, since you asked, I don't really have a problem with your characterization of Tara; she comes across very much so as Tara. My problem is that she doesn't quite seem to be gelling as a Jedi Master. Emphasis on the 'Master' bit.

Becoming a Jedi Master isn't a power or skill thing, as I understand it, otherwise Anakin would have been one, rather than just a Jedi Knight. To achieve the rank of Jedi Master requires more than simply reaching a certain level of ability, it also requires a certain state of mind.

The way that Tara's been acting, mostly in the last update, doesn't quite seem at that point. I'm fine with the shyness, being emotionally distant and closed down, and a minor lack of self confidence, but it's the way that she behaved with Boss Nass that doesn't sit right with me.

You don't get to become a Jedi Master without having been in hairy situations, and even as a Consular Tara would have done plenty of mediating. But with Boss Nass, she openly displayed fear, and pretty much caved. Unless that was an intentional ploy to play upon the Gungan's sympathy, it just doesn't seem right to me.

But frankly, the Jedi as portrayed in the movies, for the most part, didn't appear as if they had any real character flaws.

What, are you kidding? That's not what I got. I saw plenty of arrogance, pride, hidebound obedience to tradition just for starters. I mean, c'mon ... that bit where Mace Windu claims the Sith couldn't have arisen without their noticing; the bit in AotC where the keeper of the Jedi archives claims that if it isn't in their records, it doesn't exist? What is that, if not arrogance.

Jedi feel everything that normal people do, but they're purposely trained not to let themselves be ruled by their emotions, especially fear, hate and the other emotions traditionally associated with the Dark Side.

Of course, this is all just my two cents worth. (Warning, actual worth is likely far less) So feel free to ignore it, because I'll keep reading and enjoying your story. I just liked the chance for a bit of a philosophical debate.

Cheers,
Paul.

[SithLordWiccan]

Becoming a Jedi Master isn't a power or skill thing, as I understand it, otherwise Anakin would have been one, rather than just a Jedi Knight. To achieve the rank of Jedi Master requires more than simply reaching a certain level of ability, it also requires a certain state of mind.

The way that Tara's been acting, mostly in the last update, doesn't quite seem at that point. I'm fine with the shyness, being emotionally distant and closed down, and a minor lack of self confidence, but it's the way that she behaved with Boss Nass that doesn't sit right with me.

You don't get to become a Jedi Master without having been in hairy situations, and even as a Consular Tara would have done plenty of mediating. But with Boss Nass, she openly displayed fear, and pretty much caved. Unless that was an intentional ploy to play upon the Gungan's sympathy, it just doesn't seem right to me.

Well, I guess you're right. As far as that goes, I guess I'm not doing it right. And for that, I am sorry. But there is a method to my madness.

What, are you kidding? That's not what I got. I saw plenty of arrogance, pride, hidebound obedience to tradition just for starters. I mean, c'mon ... that bit where Mace Windu claims the Sith couldn't have arisen without their noticing; the bit in AotC where the keeper of the Jedi archives claims that if it isn't in their records, it doesn't exist? What is that, if not arrogance.

Well, I guess you're right. Then again, this does go back to the whole "higher-than-thou, omnipotent, can't-do-no-wrong" thing I mentioned before, doesn't it?

[SithLordWiccan]

I thought I should do this in a separate post instead of editing the one above.

To anyone who I may have offended with my comments, I apologize. I did not mean to come off being rude or snobby. I tend to get that way whenever somebody gives me unfair criticism.

That said, it's not that I don't appreciate negative criticism. In fact, with a fic like this (and my other one, to a lesser extent), I need all the help that I can get. After all, despite what some people may think, I don't consider myself to be a good writer. And helpful comments can mean a lot when it comes to writing fics like the two I have posted here @ The Kitten which, though interesting to me, don't appear at first glance to be all that interesting to anyone else.

Again, if I happen to lose readers because of my attitude, I will totally understand. I mean, after all, who wants to read a story written by someone like me?

Though I will say that if you stick around, I can safely say that you'll be pleasantly surprised by what happens.

[SithLordWiccan]

Irene:

Why are you putting yourself down? You are doing an amazing job with this story.

Thanks.

The ability to provoke debate of a character and the ability to astonish and blindside your readers is a sign of a good writer.

Well, like I said, I don't necessarily consider myself to be a "good" writer (at least, not when half a dozen other people here are better), but it means a lot to me that I can do that sort of thing and have people respond to it.

Do we write for 'praise' or do we write because we want Willow and Tara to live on?

Well, to be honest, I'm writing this story for neither of those reasons. While I did enjoy the prequel movies (a lot more so than the average fan), I always found that there was a lot that could be done better. Putting Willow and Tara into the mix allowed me to do that, in addition to go into the characters and how they would react in a different setting. (CaptMurdock's Star Trek fics kinda inspired me in that department.)

Regarding fb, not everything written is going to be positive. If you want honest and loyal readers you have to give them the oppurtunity to disagree with you.

And I get that. I do. It's not that I dislike negative feedback. It's just that I don't exactly like the fact that everybody's leaping down on me without knowing the whole picture of what I've got planned. Ironically, this is also why I detested the vast majority of people who bash the prequels, particularly I and II.

They always say you become the thing you hate the most...

I read Paul's recent fb. In a way he makes sense and I can see where he is coming from. To reach a level of Master, one has to learn how to control their emotions in the face of danger. Okay, I get that. But when it comes to love, all rules are thrown out the door because now there is a special someone's life you want to protect. So no matter what kind of training Tara had to undergo in order to be Master, once she acknowledged her true feelings for Willow, that became her new objective. Protect Willow is priority number one for her, screw the Jedi rules.

Yes. As I have said before, that is Tara's overall concern at the moment. She's not looking out for the greater good or her own well being at the moment. She's just doing whatever it is she can in order to make sure Willow's all right.

All these terms, Jedi, Master...whatever! Take those titles away and all you have left is a human being, errors and all. Just look at the soldiers in Iraq. They're not supposed to cry, they're not supposed to be afraid...but they are. Even the Five Star Generals worry. That's human and to be human is to err.

As I said before, Tara's line near the end of the chapter summed up those feelings perfectly.

We learn more through our mistakes...the fb readers leave for us might not always be to our liking, but doesn't it show that they're interested in our fics and that they're reading them?

Yes, it does. And I can't be happier to have found readers (especially readers who normally wouldn't give a toss about SW one way or the other. That really impresses me.)

Personally, I'm intriqued as to why Tara let her guard down the way she did? Did she ever get any psychological help from the Order in regards to how she found out about her mother death and the way she was concieved? If not, then the way the Order trains it Jedi's and Master's to be is flawed. They neglected to acknowledge that Tara had recieved tragic news and since Tara never mentioned how it made her feel, they never bothered to deal with those issues, so those feelings have been festering inside of her to the point that now (recognizing and acknowledging her feelings for Willow), they are slowly being brought to the surface and she's falling apart little by little. This could be a good indication as to why Tara behaved in an 'un-Master Jedi' way. Just my opinion.

Well, I can't exactly go into it now (as I've saved that sort of thing for the next fic), but you've gotten it mostly right. All I can say is that those people who want answers should stick around. Everything will be explained.

Alex, hold your head up high, and don't put yourself down. You are doing a wonderful job.

Again, thanks. It means a lot.

[grimlock72]

(especially readers who normally wouldn't give a toss about SW one way or the other. That really impresses me.)

You called ???

I figured Tara had become a Jedi Master based on other skills than fighting. Even if she can fight or use her powers in battle, she'll be very reluctant to do so, making her useless in combat. She is very emphatic and as such should make a good counselor. I saw her giving in to the GunGan king as a zero-cost 'get out of trouble' ploy... after all they WERE somewhat in trouble at that moment. Tara must have had a larger plan in mind, because if she didn't want to go to GunGan HQ she and Willow more than likely could have fought their way out. So what does she want from the GG people ??

Could be I have a different view of what a Jedi Master is though, that is VERY possible. I read it as a Jedi who is very good in whatever he/she does. Most Jedi we see in the movies are fighters (I think), makes for more viewers To be fair, Lucas did base the Jedi on fighters who used their power to police regions.. so some diplomacy was there in the beginning

Also, given that Jedi are tought to surpress their emotions (see, I do pick up on these things ) it would be quite a shock if somehow those pesky emotions do break through... as they did with Tara when she realised her feelings for Willow. Willow has at least had much more time to come to terms with that, if she ever totally accepted the Jedi rules at all (Willow isn't very good at meekly following rules she doesn't understand).

I also saw you write a couple of messages back:

without knowing the whole picture of what I've got planned

You can't do strange things in the beginning of a large story and explain them 150+ chapters later (note: not saying YOU did, just as an example) . Doesn't work, even though YOU know how it can be explained:). With larger stories that is always a problem, keeping the readers/viewers with your story. If you take Buffy as an example, they had smaller sub-plots in there for a reason... and if you ever watched season 7 you know it doesn't work well without . It's somewhat dangerous to do a large amount of setup with a (huge) pay-off a long time away.. because you have to bridge that gap... the reader doesn't know the pay-off (obviously) ... I'm not explaining this very well am I??

I can't see that large-story-arc problem with your story though. It has smaller plots I can see resolved first (good thing that, as I can be impatient I'm told). For starters escaping from wherever they exactly are, seeing if they do go help the GunGan who weren't very friendly at first... lots of little things to see... The big background story will tag along slowly but surely. You do have six entire stories planned right?

I'll just form my own ideas about Jedi ranks from this story, without any pesky movies confusing me, heh... I don't know much about the SW universe (as opposed to Trek for example) so I don't spot many inconsistencies, while in a StarTrek story... well it would be harder to ignore them there for me. Always a problem with AU's in a well known universe I suppose. Do as Chris and use a unknown universe like "Diablo II" or something, you can tell people anything about that

Look on the bright side, comments & feedback indicate people actually READ your story and they think it's worthwhile to post replies too .

Did that help a bit ??

Grimmy

[SithLordWiccan]

Grimmy:

I figured Tara had become a Jedi Master based on other skills than fighting. Even if she can fight or use her powers in battle, she'll be very reluctant to do so, making her useless in combat.

That is true. While most Jedi are shown to be good at fighting, fighting is not what a Jedi's primary goal is. The first thing that a Jedi is supposed to do is seek balance and be diplomatic, something to which Tara is know for doing (at least in the Buffyverse, anyway). I always figured that Tara was more an experienced diplomat and mediator, usually leaving the fighting to others.

Also, given that Jedi are tought to surpress their emotions (see, I do pick up on these things it would be quite a shock if somehow those pesky emotions do break through... as they did with Tara when she realised her feelings for Willow. Willow has at least had much more time to come to terms with that, if she ever totally accepted the Jedi rules at all (Willow isn't very good at meekly following rules she doesn't understand).

Well, Willow does accept the rules, even though she doesn't understand why. That's why she always carried a torch (so to speak) for Tara, yet always realized that nothing could ever come from it.

You can't do strange things in the beginning of a large story and explain them 150+ chapters later (note: not saying YOU did, just as an example) . Doesn't work, even though YOU know how it can be explained:). With larger stories that is always a problem, keeping the readers/viewers with your story. If you take Buffy as an example, they had smaller sub-plots in there for a reason... and if you ever watched season 7 you know it doesn't work well without . It's somewhat dangerous to do a large amount of setup with a (huge) pay-off a long time away.. because you have to bridge that gap... the reader doesn't know the pay-off (obviously) ... I'm not explaining this very well am I??

No, you got it perfectly. And to be honest, I do get that. After all, one of the big problems people had with the prequels was that they wanted to see Anakin as Vader right from the very start. That's not the story that GL wanted to do, however, and so people bitched. This is basically the same thing.

I originally planned to do this as a trilogy, covering events as they occured in Episodes I, II and II. Then I got around to toying with ideas on how to make Willow and Tara work in the original trilogy, and so I began to rework my basic plots and such. I understand that I may loose some readers who don't want to follow that path but, like I said before, I'm writing this more for me than I am for anyone else. Picking up readers is just a bonus.

I can't see that large-story-arc problem with your story though. It has smaller plots I can see resolved first (good thing that, as I can be impatient I'm told). For starters escaping from wherever they exactly are, seeing if they do go help the GunGan who weren't very friendly at first... lots of little things to see... The big background story will tag along slowly but surely. You do have six entire stories planned right?

See above.

I'll just form my own ideas about Jedi ranks from this story, without any pesky movies confusing me, heh...

You do that.

Look on the bright side, comments & feedback indicate people actually READ your story and they think it's worthwhile to post replies too .

Indeed.

Did that help a bit ??

Yup. Helped out a lot. Thanks.

[grimlock72]

Oh yeah, I forgot.. you read replies to this thread really fast . Must... learn... to use the 'preview' button to do the well.. previewing.. yeah that's it.

Anyway:

After all, one of the big problems people had with the prequels was that they wanted to see Anakin as Vader right from the very start. That's not the story that GL wanted to do, however, and so people bitched. This is basically the same thing.

Didn't know that was the main complaint (I had others, but this is not the place). It *is* difficult to make a prequel that has to fit with it's well known sequel. George set himself up real good there . Basically GL had already told us the end/pay-off and now told us how to get there... the other way around compared to your (and most) story. We have to thank GL for properly demonstrating why usually stories are told the way they are, heh.

I originally planned to do this as a trilogy, covering events as they occured in Episodes I, II and III. Then I got around to toying with ideas on how to make Willow and Tara work in the original trilogy,

Not looking for spoilers really, but I was wondering; Wouldn't they be, well OLD by then ?? Ok, so Vader had a trick for that.. now why am I imagining Obi Wan Rosenberg lifting a figther-craft out of a swamp using the force...odd me is .

Ending on ep3 would make this story end on a sad note would it not?
(and lots of readers will want ep4 posted asap, best be prepared for that)

I'll be very interested how you work that jump in time... if you're bored you could fill the holes between ep3 and ep4

Of to sleeeeeeep..... sleep well MyLord

Grimmy

[SithLordWiccan]

Grimmy:

Oh yeah, I forgot.. you read replies to this thread really fast . Must... learn... to use the 'preview' button to do the well.. previewing.. yeah that's it.

Only when I happen to be online. Which happens a lot, to be honest.

Didn't know that was the main complaint.

I never said it was the main complaint. It was one of many I did hear, though.

Not looking for spoilers really, but I was wondering; Wouldn't they be, well OLD by then ?? Ok, so Vader had a trick for that.. now why am I imagining Obi Wan Rosenberg lifting a figther-craft out of a swamp using the force...odd me is .

So? What's age got to do with anything? I should probably say that, by the Dark Nest Trilogy, the main characters of the OT are almost sixty years old. That hasn't slowed them down, why should it slow down our ladies?

Or, as Troy Denning puts it, "Sixty is the new Forty".

Ending on ep3 would make this story end on a sad note would it not?

Yes, it would. Especially considering the direction I'm going.

(and lots of readers will want ep4 posted asap, best be prepared for that)

Oh, I am.

I'll be very interested how you work that jump in time... if you're bored you could fill the holes between ep3 and ep4

I probably will...though in the past tense sort of way.

[Darth Pacula]

G'day, Sith.

First off, let me apologize if I have seemed overly harsh lately. I didn't mean to, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. Really, I just had a minor disagreement with a couple of lines, and it looks like I kind of let it blow all out of proportion. My feedback was never meant to be negative in nature (if you indeed found it to be so) but rather to be a simple disagreement of opinion. This is your story, and you can write it in whatever way you like, and any detractors can go get buggered!

Anyway, consider me chastised if you like. (I actually slapped myself in the face on your behalf. I am now regretting that action. Curse my own strength! )

I've been thinking about this the last few days, and I think I'm starting to follow your reasoning. (Note the hedging, because I'm probably wrong :d)

Okay, so the way that Jedi are raised makes them calm and balanced for the most part, but it also leaves them virtually inept at social interactions, especially in romantic situations. Their training keeps them at a distance from the society they're sworn to protect, when when a Jedi does fall in love, as Willow and Tara have done so, they have no experience in dealing with it, and are just as bad off as a teenager with their first crush.

Okay, so Tara's being forced to deal with emotions that she has no experience dealing with, and has been trying to deny for a while now. Add to that a volatile situation, ripe with the possibility for violence, and it's no surprise that she didn't handle it with the typical Jedi aplomb. Cue the less-than lion hearted behavior.

It think my biggest problem with following that reasoning is that I myself would never act that way. I'd be more inclined to attack something that had the potential to threaten something or someone I loved, rather than to shrink away in the hopes of avoiding conflict.

And if I'm still getting it wrong ... then I am a moron. But I already knew that, so no great loss.

To anyone who I may have offended with my comments, I apologize. I did not mean to come off being rude or snobby. I tend to get that way whenever somebody gives me unfair criticism.

Um ... what? I never got that impression, but then again, you could probably insult me until the cows come home and I wouldn't mind. A lifetime's worth of trading friendly insults with my friends and family have given me a thick skin.

I don't necessarily consider myself to be a "good" writer

Anyone who does consider themselves a 'good writer' without reservation probably has an overly swollen ego, mate, so a little insecurity is a good thing!

To conclude, you're doing great, so don't worry mate. And on a side note, I'm not one of those SW fans who bitched about the prequels. I liked them.

Oh, and Irene; you said, and I quote:

I read Paul's recent fb. In a way he makes sense and I can see where he is coming from.

To me, that translates as: In other ways, he's full of shit!

Cheers,
Paul.

[SithLordWiccan]

Paul:

First off, let me apologize if I have seemed overly harsh lately. I didn't mean to, and I'm sorry if I came off that way. Really, I just had a minor disagreement with a couple of lines, and it looks like I kind of let it blow all out of proportion. My feedback was never meant to be negative in nature (if you indeed found it to be so) but rather to be a simple disagreement of opinion. This is your story, and you can write it in whatever way you like, and any detractors can go get buggered!

Well, its not that I don't mind critical feedback (as I have said). It's just that this fic has a couple of built in secrets that I want to keep secret until its time to unleash them. I had feared that I had given one away too early, which is why I got a little defensive.

Okay, so the way that Jedi are raised makes them calm and balanced for the most part, but it also leaves them virtually inept at social interactions, especially in romantic situations. Their training keeps them at a distance from the society they're sworn to protect, when when a Jedi does fall in love, as Willow and Tara have done so, they have no experience in dealing with it, and are just as bad off as a teenager with their first crush.

Okay, so Tara's being forced to deal with emotions that she has no experience dealing with, and has been trying to deny for a while now. Add to that a volatile situation, ripe with the possibility for violence, and it's no surprise that she didn't handle it with the typical Jedi aplomb. Cue the less-than lion hearted behavior.

Yes, that is it exactly. I don't know if I ever established this before (and if I didn't, I kinda wish I did), but Tara was always the "by the book, take no guff from anybody" Jedi one would expect a Jedi to be. Then she learned about where she came from, and that started to set up barriers that prevented her from doing what she wanted when it came to certain things.

The first time those defenses get breached, albeit unintentionally, is when she saves Willow in the Undercity of Coruscant. Since then, she's felt an attraction to Willow that goes beyond the standard "Master/Padawan" friendship. She's been reluctant to act on those feelings, however, because she fears that she couldn't deal with it. It's only now, with the ever spectre of death hanging over their every move, that she can feel that she can open herself up. After all, she's convinced that she probably isn't going to survive the situation, and wouldn't exactly like to keep how she feels kept inside.

It think my biggest problem with following that reasoning is that I myself would never act that way. I'd be more inclined to attack something that had the potential to threaten something or someone I loved, rather than to shrink away in the hopes of avoiding conflict.

You may do that, yeah. But that's not the way that the Jedi (usually) do things. Hence, the problem Tara faces now.

Anyways, I hope to have Chapter Twelve up tomorrow.