Gods Served and Abandoned

[AntigoneUnbound]

Hey Kittens--Great feedback's a-rollin' in, as ever. Thanks!



Rose: You're right: it's a child's worst nightmare to learn that someone she/he loves is very sick. I promise I won't treat the subject melodramatically or disrespectfully. Thanks for reading and giving such consistent feedback--I appreciate it.



Nora: Yeah, Donnie kinda grows on you, doesn't he...sorta like mold. I'm glad he's interesting to you, because he needs to be for this story to work. The way I see it, he needs to have (a) some kind of motivation and (b) sufficient intelligence to pose a realistic threat. You raise some great questions re: his history, particularly his reaction to his mother's illness and death. Did he grieve at all? Did he feel anything besides bitterness and resentment? And how did the family as a whole react to the event? I hope you enjoy where I go w/ this as much as I enjoy the exchanges on this thread, and certainly your contribution. Thanks for following this story, and taking the time to write such thoughtful feedback.



magicpixie: I think the flashbacks (in this or any story) let us see Tara from her perspective at that time, as opposed to a more purely retrospective point of view. I'm glad it works for you. Thanks for writing.



Debra: Oh, I live to be disturbing (Mary said, an evil laugh coming from someplace deep inside)...OK, not so much. But I'm glad that the update was disturbing b/c, as you inferred, it needed to be. He knows how to "land" Beth b/c he knows what she most wants: to be her uncle's "daughter" as much as possible. Glad you enjoyed the menstrual meanderings. You're right, though: Willow would definitely also lobby for subsidized deoderant, toothpaste, etc. As I very sophisticatedly and eloquently explained to Jenny, however, I just very much enjoyed writing the word "Tampax." Thanks for following this story and taking the time to write such good feedback.



Grimaldi: Glad the tampon chuckles worked for you, and now that I think about it, wouldn't "Tampon Chuckles" be a great name for a softball team? Thanks for reading and sending your thoughts.



That's all for now~~

Edited by: AntigoneUnbound at: 1/17/03 9:41:06 am

[darkmagicwillow]

I enjoyed watching Donnie patiently reeling in Cousin Beth; it shows he has a charisma and patience that could make him dangerous even if he isn't brilliant or magically powerful. Though perhaps he will become powerful if that box contains Tara's mother's magical supplies. Does he have any idea how to use them though? Did his mother teach him anything? Was it his attitude towards those teachings, or was it the lack of them that estranged him from his mother?



And who is Cousin Beth? Where are her parents? Why does she want to be Nathan's daughter so badly when neither of his children want to belong to him?



I liked seeing Buffy share her discovery about Dawn with her friends. That shows the trust that should've been there after all they've gone through. How does Buffy feel about Dawn now? Has she told Riley? This early revelation shakes the whole foundations of s5 and makes me realize that this could be a much bigger story than your last one. What else will this early revelation change? Will Donnie drive Willow and Tara closer so that the terrible events of Tough Love never happen? Perhaps Donnie could be a substitute snack for the hellgod?



The last scene is difficult for me to focus on for the same reason as Tara. I've gone through that before, and I think I'll leave it alone for now.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

Edited by: darkmagicwillow at: 1/17/03 11:10:51 am

[Grimlock72]

Gawd... at least Donnie is cunning, Beth is just plain dumb Soooo annoying seeing her being talked into helping Donnie. After all it doesn't take to much thinking that whatever Nathan keeps in that locked box he keeps locked for a REASON hmm ??



I doubt he would keep his wife's magic supplies around, given he hates magic and pretty much blames it for everything wrong in the world. Although I don't exactly see a *farmer* keep a gun in a locked box, bit too much trouble to get to it in times of need. Damn, guess I'll have to wait and see....



As for Donnie's motivation; I think it's jealousy mostly. Cousin Beth would make a fine house-slave so thats not what he wants Tara for. He just doesn't like a female MaClay to have a worthwhile life and he's intend on destroying it.



Would be interesting to get Nathan's reaction when he notices that the box is missing or empty, or whenever he hears about what Donnie has done. Donnie sure as hell isn't doing this to console "Dads pain"... I'll bet money on that .



Poor little Tara at the end. The person she most loved/needed in her life is ill, I also wondered what the reactions were of both Nathan and Donnie. Speaking of which I got to wonder if Donnie is capable of showing love/affection at all.



As for the tax stuff Willow mentioned, only 6 cent of a dollar ? It's 33 cents over here so stop complaining .



Hmm... if Donnie takes whatever is in the box out in front of Beth, will she realize she did something stupid and run to tell Nathan ? (will she have the guts to tell him then is maybe the better question)



Grimmy

"You hurt Tara," Willow said too calmly. "The last one who tried that was a god. I made her regret it." -- Unexpected Consequences by Lisa of Nine

[VampNo12]

Mary, another wonderful update! I found the Donnie/Beth interaction quite intriguing, especially "the reeling of the fish" imagery. Personally, I don't see Beth as "dumb", but rather more like a "snake in the grass", who likes to hide behind her "holier-than-thou" (pious) image. Or in other words, I see her as manipulative as Donny, but in her own controlled way for a completely different goal. Thus, I liked Donnie's "come-back" to Beth's quiet outrage about the thought of "stealing" from Uncle Nathan (ie "We'll put everything back. And in the second place don't get all high and mighty with me about nosin' around. If I know you like I think I do, you've already made yourself pretty comfortable with our house and everything in it."). Here Donnie "calls" her on her behavior, which I'm sure in Beth's mind is justified with her "bending" the rules to fit her "needs" (ie wanting to be able to "help" to the best of her ability, and how can she accomplish this without "acquainting" herself with everything in the household). So I guess I find Donnie clever with the way he manipulates Beth (ie he has her "pegged" and "plays"/charms her to get want he wants, the locked box), but at the same time Beth is always looking for an opening to make in-roads to become the "number 1 female in the Maclay household". Thus, she allows herself to be talked into taking the locked box for the "greater good" (which for Beth means replacing Tara, to finally been seen in the role of the "good daughter").



I got a kick out of the "tampon" exchange, and I liked how instead of withholding the information, Buffy shows her trust in her "family" by relating right away the shocking knowledge that Dawn is the "key". Also loved these lines, ("Willow started to speak again, but fell silent at the feel of Tara's hand falling gently on her thigh. She would follow Tara's lead here. Tara knew her way around the scary dungeons of psychological terrors far better than she did."), which beautifully conveyed with a simple "touch" their innate connection.



Lastly, I so felt for Tara with the lines, ("For years, it seemed, she'd been trying to hurry time along, nudging it and pushing it and urging it to pick up its pace. Now, for the first time that she could remember, she wanted it to slow down."). For so long Tara has relied on "time" passing as a sign she was getting closer to her "freedom", and now "time" takes on a whole new meaning with not wanting to waste "time"/there will never be enough "time" (ie every new second, minute, and day spent with her mother should be cherished, which is more important than the suffering she has to endure at the hands of Donnie/etc). And I can so relate Tara not wanting her mother to verbalize that she has cancer. The knowledge might still be in the back of one's mind, but without hearing the words the "door is still open a crack" (a hope in possibilities). However, with the painful truth "out", it's harder to be in denial, (it's "real"), and with this intrusion of reality it feels like the "door has been slammed shut". Can't wait for the next part!



By the way feel free to go "hog-wild" with different variations of my name Vamp ! As you can see with my name, creative I'm not , so anything must be better compared to VampNo12. Hey you can even call me Vicki if you like, which happens to be my real name.

Edited by: VampNo12  at: 1/17/03 7:38:36 pm

[Sister Bertrille]

What is it with the Maclay children and authority figures?! The more I read this story, the better my own mom, dad, sister, and cousin (Mary) Beth are starting to look! Seriously, though, you do a wonderful job of keepin’ it scarily real, and that’s no mean feat, as it would probably be simpler to write Donnie, Beth, and Nathan as caricatures. That might make some of your readers more comfortable (I’m a huge Snidely Whiplash fan!), since we could then dismiss them as credible threats, but it would take away the psychological complexity at which you excel and which all of us have grown to love! You must be exhausted walking that tightrope, though!



Donnie reminds me, well, of Joss, but also of people who create and propagate computer viruses. All that cunning, all that energy, all that resolve, and this is the best you can come up with?! Still waiting on that cure for cancer, boys.



Oh, and for the poll? OBs all the way.



SB

[Twisted Minstrel]

Well gosh, I'm away for a little while and it's all tampons and tribulations...



Miss Calendar said something that struck me: Willow and Tara's relationship is not based on pity and need, they are not acting out some victim/rescuer dynamic. They have both been hurt by past experiences but managed to use them to develop into caring and compassionate women



While I agree, within the context of your story this is true, in the actual show, it was certainly not. Tara was a plot device, plain and simple. Everything written for her, done to her and done by her, was to further Willow into a dark corner - by all rights we should be insulted by this relationship at it's most basic level since it was all about a hetereosexual's limited and wasteful point of view of a lesbian relationship (not Willow and Tara themselves, just those who wrote the crap). Not unlike the point of view shared by Donnie and Beth. Everything is about dramatics. As if either of these two understood anything without a soap opera/Jerry Springer-style context.



Really, how many people do we know take things to a melodramatic extreme? If Donnie can really be accused of anything, it's having a cinematic dementia. He's seen too many movies. He's heard too many twisted stories (no, not mine), and let his imagination run wild in a field of piss and vinegar. His actions are those of a little boy bully who wants to be like "Ahnold" or any number of stereotypical male chauvinist-type characters, even (gasp!) James Bond. I can picture a follower like Donnie listening to Rush Limbaugh or some other conservative-style radio shock jock and nodding his head emphatically, not bothering to even think about what is being said. He'll spew it out later and believe the ideas are his own. He is unbending in his thoughtless opinions and will not change.



Nothing but the most degrading humiliation possible, the worst ass-whupping imaginable (and I don't mean the physical, get-me-a-stick-sister kind, but the more emotional, psychological type) might come close to turning his head - and this leads me to believe the only weapon to be used against Donnie - is Donnie himself. And, sadly for him, he hasn't a clue.



Beth? Pshaw. We serve girls like her over easy where I come from. A litte cajun spice takes out the bitter aftertaste and a sweet onion takes care of the smell.



Regarding your story in general, I think it's a Keeper.



Huh? What did you think I meant?



Oh...and you can call me Piper. It's me name.

"Nunc scio quit sit amor"

-Virgil

[hush30]

Hey Mary,

Quote:

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"No, it's just a matter of principle. We have no choice but to use feminine protection products, and frankly, I think they should be subsidized by the government."

---

I loved this line. It reminded me of the debate we had in Australia when they introduced the Goods and Services Tax a few years back. We wanted Tampons to be exempt from GST but sadly it didn't pass . Can someone also please let me know what the keeper is (via private message is fine). We probably have a similar product here in Australia but I haven't heard of the keeper.

Quote:

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I'm having even more fun, here in my office, saying it aloud to myself. I should probably consider getting professional help of either a psychological or gynecological nature for this.

---

Mary talking to yourself is very healthy, you know that . It's also very amusing when someone catches you (or so I've heard ).



Back to the story. I wonder what's in the box Donnie is getting Beth to borrow for him. Great discussion as it illustrates so well how we, as humans (debatable in Donnie's case), are truly masters at justifying any kind of behaviour. Donnie also puts so much time and effort into manipulating others and he seems to really have a talent for it (sadly it's probably his only talent). I have the feeling he's going to use something from the box that belonged to their mother and is of deep sentimental value to Tara (and her dad). I guess I'll just have to wait and see like everyone else.



It was heart-wrenching the way you described Tara's dread at the news she knew was coming from her mother and her realisation that once she heard it life would never be the same. Sometimes I'm all for the denial when one considers the alternatives.



Once again a very intriguing update and I'm looking forward to finding out what Donnie is up to with the contents of that box.

"I think this line's mostly filler" - Willow in OMWF

[Tulipp]

Well first, Mary: I'm relieved that my perspective thoughts were okay, although I'm not sure I conveyed in my post how much more (as if that were possible) I love what you're doing now that I've tuned in to the relationship between the way sections start and end and interrelate and the story itself. Forgot to gush, in other words. My bad. I just love this story.



And second: in this last chapter, I gotta say, you wrote Donnie so well; he took on more dimension for me. In having to charm Beth, he showed his ability to be charming; maybe that's deceitful and manipulative, but it's there. And when he said, "Now if I told you that, it would ruin the ending, wouldn’t it?" I just got chills and thrills because I realized that for a moment, you succeeded in making reader=Beth. There I was, right there with Beth, being verbally seduced by this horrible guy who has nothing but bad intentions for Tara and Willow. Talk about meta moments.



And for me, that line worked so well with one of child Tara's last thoughts in this chapter, "that it was too late, that her mother had uttered the words and the words had made it all real." By itself, that was poignant, but as a commentary on the chapter--another meta moment--it was just so great. Donnie has uttered the words, and it is too late. A chain of events has been set in motion here, with Donnie's words on the phone, with your words to us, and things are going to happen. Damn, but that is excellent.



Finally, darkmagicwillow asked why Beth wants to be Nathan's daughter. Now maybe I've been watching too many episodes of CSI and Law and Order lately, but honestly? I have this idea that Beth is a slightly more distant cousin, and what she really wants isn't to be Nathan's daughter but to be his wife. Just my sense of a twisted family dynamic.



Thanks for a great chapter.

"And I'm eating this banana. Lunchtime be damned!" -- Willow in "Doppelgangland

[darkmagicwillow]

Thankfully, I have already written my dissertation, but thank you so much for the compliments. I found the following quote in your response very insightful:

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She’s so accustomed to being disempowered that it’s almost impossible for her to believe that she now has the power to hurt, be unjust or selfish. It’s almost as if she now has to choose to be moral, now that she has realistic opportunities to be immoral, or even amoral.

---

I hadn't thought of Willow's problem in this way before, but it makes so much sense. With these choices being new to her, it's clear that she won't automatically or easily make the right choice at first. Thanks, that gives me a new perspective from which to see Willow's fall.



Tulipp, it does feel like Beth wants to be the woman of the house in more ways than cooking and picking up after Nathan. I was thinking of her as a first cousin, but your feedback makes me realize that we don't know precisely what her relationship with Nathan is.

--

"Omnia mutantur, nihil interit." -- "Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost."

[samiamiguess]

Ahhh, *whacks damn computer* I just wrote my feedback only to lose the whole lot. Hmmmpff



Ok, that is not going to delay this. I’m in a great mood and you dear Mary deserve much better than late feedback from me. Err, will chocolates, flowers or wine suffice? Such great replies have already been posted but I believe Twisted Minstrel eloquently relayed my most forefront feeling:

Quote:

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Well gosh, I'm away for a little while and it's all tampons and tribulations...

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What with here and the tampon discussion in Mel’s Edge of Silence thread I’m starting to think the board should seriously consider a sponsorship deal.

Ok, so onto dark Donnie. You’re really developing him here aren’t you, I like it! He’s calculating and astute and so much more than the one-dimensional character of the series. He is able to manoeuvre the conversation with Beth to his own benefit so succinctly. To me he attempted to do this during his encounter with Willow but was unsuccessful, here however Beth is unaware of his controlling nature during the conversation and meekly follows his lead. But this is where my ponderings have been focussed. I’m curious as to how things will develop between these two. Beth’s motivation in becoming the woman of the household conflicts with Donnie’s, or rather his fathers desire to bring Tara home. The solution which will placate both is a scenario in which Donnie exacts his control and revenge over his sister whilst keeping Tara away from the household for good. And that is what worries me.



Despite this darkness, one thing I wanted to mention was the fact that you do not lose sight of the evolving relationship between Willow and Tara and how each of them are developing because of the other.

Quote:

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Willow started to speak again, but fell silent at the feel of Tara’s hand falling gently on her thigh. She would follow Tara’s lead here. Tara knew her way around the scary dungeons of psychological terrors far better than she did.

---

I loved the simplicity of this, the feeling it portrays is wonderful and I thank you for these gold nuggets of the relationship that make your story so much more.



Reading about Tara’s childhood is obviously difficult but I feel it is essential here. We clearly see the darkness that has overcome Donnie but we also need to see not only what Tara is running from but remember what Willow is fighting for, this light that Tara has, despite everything. These events have produced both.

Phew, rather longer than I had anticipated so I apologise for my ramblings. Cracking stuff as always, Mary.

Sonya

Edited by: samiamiguess at: 1/20/03 7:34:04 am

[AntigoneUnbound]

Once again, Kittens, your feedback is remarkable and I count myself lucky to swap ideas and ruminations with you. (This is different, of course, from swapping ruminants, which is appealing in its own way.) Sorry it’s taken me a little longer than usual to get back to you. Life sorta threw me a curveball this weekend and I’m scrambling to get back into the saddle. I hope to have an update posted tomorrow (Thursday). Thanks for your patience.



One of the things that people seemed to most respond to was the picture of Donnie as having a little more on the ball than we’d like him to have. He’s certainly not an enjoyable character, but he needs to have some kind of smarts beyond that of your average Pez dispenser in order to be a credible foil of any kind. It’s not fun to write him, but I feel like I’m on the right track when it’s interesting to write him.



The other question that appeared frequently was: WHAT’S IN THAT BOX? Hell if I know…Actually, I do; I’m just not tellin’ yet.



Finally, many people are envisioning Donnie as (to quote DarkMagicWillow) a substitute snack for the hellgod. Keep sending your preferred means of Donnie’s vanquishing; I’ll tally the final results and perhaps write an alternate epilogue at the end (not to be confused w/ those epilogues that come in the middle of the story) featuring the winning come-uppance in graphic detail.



Now—for individual responses.



>>DMW: You’re an excellent one for picking up on the nuances and implications of any emerging themes/events. Yes, Buffy (wisely) opts to trust her friends and it does change the possibilities of what happens now. Willow and Tara are now joined in fighting a danger (Donnie) that poses a unique threat to the two of them. Will this, as you speculate, bring them closer such that Glory doesn’t get to Tara? In response to your question about Beth, I think Tulipp nailed it well: Tara has what (for whatever sad or twisted reason) Beth wants. I see that as being a theme in this story: how do various people deal with not getting what they most want? How do they rationalize their actions in response to this disappointment? Do they even go to the trouble of trying to rationalize it? I think one of the most compelling questions about Donnie involves the depth of his thought process. He has the capacity to be cunning, yet he’s clearly capable of profound reactivity. I’m hoping to illuminate him throughout the rest of the story—some would suggest I illuminate him with a 2000 volt cattle prod. Thanks as ever, DMW, for your intelligent and thought-provoking ideas. I really appreciate your time and consideration.



Grimlock: I’m w/ VampNo12—I don’t see Beth as stupid, just desperate to get what she wants and thus willing, at an unconscious level, to be manipulated. Donnie has subtly encouraged her dreams of replacing Tara, and so she tells herself that her behavior is justified. Wish I could say I’ve never made the same mistake…Don’t assume that it couldn’t be a gun; my father always kept his locked away b/c of safety issues. Ah, but by saying that am I practically assuring folks that it’s NOT a gun in the box? Oh, the drama…(to be read in a melodramatic voice). You’re right about teen-age Tara: the one person she loves and needs most is leaving her. I also like your question about Nathan’s and Donnie’s reactions, esp. Donnie: CAN he feel anything akin to love? Thanks for the close reading and the thoughtful questions.



Vamp-o-licious! (aka Vicki): (You said I could play with your name; who knows what appellations will emerge now.) I loved your "snake in the grass" image: I think that captures Beth very well. You’re right: she IS manipulative, but has (or perceives herself to have) different weapons at her disposal. Remember, the Maclay women aren’t valued for asserting their ideas and needs; Beth has learned that the side-door is definitely the most viable means of entry for her. You’re also right about Donnie calling her on her behavior: he recognizes her deceitfulness and figures out how to play it to his advantage. You know, I find that I take a kind of comfort in writing little scenes like the tampon exchange. I sorta figure that there’s no way anyone could live through what they’ve all lived through w/o having some kind of abiding recognition of just how surreal, of farcical, their existence is. If you didn’t have a sense of humor, you’d be on the next train to Deadsylvania. (It’s about 20 miles outside of Pittsburgh.) And yes, Tara’s internal monologue and then her conversation w/ her mother was painful. It was actually hard to write. I definitely see a kind of emotional whip-lash there, w/ having wanted for so many years to just get away (and eventually, hopefully, take her mother with her) and then suddenly wanting time to stand still. Yes, the spoken word makes things real beyond any of our imaginings—in ways that can be glorious, and in ways that can be excruciating. (I’m just imagining this, of course—I have no personal experience in this area. Right. Yes. Moving right along…) Glad to hear you’re feeling better; hope there’s not been any kind of recurrence. It’s colder than a cat’s ass in a windstorm in my neck of the woods: on the plus side, it’s killing all the germs; on the down side, I haven’t felt my toes since Christmas Eve.) Thanks for writing, Vicki—you always have the best stuff to say.



Sister Bertrille: Ah, you’ve discerned my ulterior motive: making everyone who reads this feel a little bit better about their own families! I can’t get anything by you, can I? Thanks for letting me know that the psychological complexity piece is working. I don’t want to paint Donnie as too widely divergent in different updates, such that he lacks any depth or consistency; at the same time, I’m a big believer in the multiplicity of everyone’s psyche. I think we all have a number (3? 78.42?) of different aspects or faces to us; their emergence depends on such things as context, self-confidence, and self-awareness, to name a few. I love your comparison of Donnie to Joss, particularly w/ regard to the energy expended for such small and dubious ends. Thanks, SB, for the trenchant (love that word; happy to have a chance to use it) observations and for the encouragement. Hope all’s well with you.



Piper: Tampons and tribulations and cruel, vengeful siblings, oh my! Once again, the quality of your feedback blows me away. In fact, I just pulled myself out of a pile of snow and back into the building after having been blown out my window. You make a remarkable observation about Tara’s depiction on the show; specifically, the simplicity of her character’s impact on Willow. The subtle nuances of her character, the full extent to which she could stand on her own (as opposed to existing as some kind of catalyst for Willow) was never explored. Instead, we were fed a steady diet of Buffy and Riley, Buffy and Spike, Willow and the dark magic. I’m not watching the show anymore, but from what I’ve heard they’ve spent plenty of time exploring Willow’s addiction to magic but not a whole lot on her grief over the violent death of her soul mate. Call me crazy, but I’m gonna put the latter ahead of the former in terms of impact, and that’s not to take anything away from the depth of addictive problems. But Tara died in her arms, and it seems as if it’s barely been mentioned. (Must stop now; must breathe.) OK, I’m back. You’re dead on about Donnie listening to Rush and nodding vigorously: here’s someone to do his "thinking" for him, and he has the external support/validation that Donnie could only imagine having for himself. And what a wonderful observation about the ultimate weapon to wield against Donnie: Donnie himself. You’re a sharp one, Piper. And Beth? What threat does she represent? Is she simply a tool that Donnie uses to further his own ends? Does she have any capacity to act boldly, or is she relegated to slinking? Hmm…I should probably figure this out, huh? Thanks again for the remarkable comments, Piper, and for taking the time to follow this story and write. Your words help things flow and ease the mental cramps of writing…as it were.



Hush: Yes, that whole talking to myself (esp. saying the word "Tampax" over and over) could definitely have some career implications. Thanks for the reminder…You know, a number of Kittens have wondered what’s in the box; I hope the revelation will be worthwhile. If not, I’ll buy all of you your next month’s supply of the menstrual device of your choice. And yeah, teenage-Tara has now been thrown into a new part of her life, where there’s no longer the option of trying to pretend that things will be OK. Thanks for keeping up with this story and taking the time to write.



Tulipp: Wow—the author of "Bread" is gushing? I react with both blushing and subsequent flushing. Seriously—I’m glad you enjoyed this chapter, and that Donnie took on a greater depth for you. As I’ve noted above, I think he has to in order to play a central part in this story. You have a keen ear, it seems, for those meta-moments; I definitely have a fondness for them b/c it feels like they lend this symmetry, or internal echoing, or some other term that I don’t know. I’m psyched that you can pick them up and help me understand them better myself. And you’re dead-on about the various possibilities of Beth’s desire to become a fixture in the Maclay household. For some reason, she feels that she has no real home of her own and this is the one that she wants—but in what capacity? And what will she do to secure it? Thanks for writing, Tulipp, and for the kind and thoughtful words. I always like seeing your name on this thread, b/c it means that I’m going to learn something.



Sonya: Hey girl! You know, I’ve lost my feedback a few times and I agree, it’s crazy-making. Thanks for taking the time to reassemble your ideas and send them to me. And hey—glad to hear you’re in a great mood! Hope it’s of the enduring variety! There’s no need to send anything—I’m sitting here holding a sign that says "Will write for good thoughts and encouragement." I love the idea of a Kitten menstrual sponsorship. Imagine the possibilities: "Get into the flow, with Willow, Tara, and (selected product here)!" It brings me joy to even think of it. You’re right: I’m trying to develop Donnie into someone with more depth and nuance than we might like him to have. You also make a good point about what would placate them both—how would they both work to make that happen? How would they attempt to use the other (and Nathan) for their own ends? Finally, I’m glad you see the evolving relationship b/w Willow and Tara. Willow is starting to realize the full extent of Tara’s wisdom about all things human, especially the world of psychological pain, and she’s working to silence herself enough to hear that wisdom in the many forms and languages that it takes. Thanks for writing, Sonya, and don’t ever apologize for rambling. I really appreciate your time and thoughtfulness.



OK—that’s all for now. As I mentioned earlier, I plan to post an update tomorrow. Thanks agai

[tommo]

Once again, I'm apologising for not giving feedback before now. But the upside is that I got to read most of this fic all in one sitting, which has been a true delight. This fic is just so rich with characterisation and it's all deeply enmeshed in the taut severity of your plotline.



I think one of the most wonderful things about this fic is the way that you've brought together elements of the show but given them your own special spin. That notion of familiarity runs throughout and gives the whole story an overall background that the reader can identify with. We already know that Tara comes from an abusive family, but here you develop that so very well that you don't need to give more explanations than is really necessary. And you do that so very well.



Donnie, as a character is really well drawn as the old fashioned villain type. Not only is his speech pattern simply wonderful to read, but you've also added tone and depth in what he ways. I'm really quite fascinated at the dichotomy you've created here. Because he's such a well written character I want to compliment you, but because he's such a well written character, I want to plead with you to just make him go away. Heh. And that kind of contradictory tension is enough to keep me reading chapter after chapter. I'm honestly loving his neanderthal ways and his entire misconception about his sister. In one way, I think it's really very sad how little siblings can know their own, and betray their own ignorance. Donnie is so very stupid about life in general, but you've created Tara's home life and family so successfully that one can't really blame him. Although I do. Heh. I really do. And his stupidity is both threatening and yet almost reassuring, because no matter how much he represents the human evil in the story, I just know that he can't hold a candle to Willow's love for Tara.



Which brings me to two important themes that I see in this fic. Firstly, there's the notion of human evil vs demon evil. I really like the way in which you've almost offset Glory and Donnie as the opposing forces here. She is the unknown; the damaging hellgod whom the Scoobies are intent on suppressing, or at best, doing away with altogether. But Donnie is the insidious known component of the story. And in the flashback type scenes, you give us more and more of a glimpse into the evils that men do. Somehow, I think I find Donnie much more frightening than Glory at this point in the fic. But that contrast is wonderful.



The second theme that I see here is the eternal battle of good vs evil. Your structure constantly helps the reader see how Willow and Tara are thrown into an aspect of Tara and her family. This is something I always wanted to see more of in the show, actually, and I'm really grateful that you've done it so well here. The painful, touching love of Tara's mother is accentuated by the grim realities of her young life. The more that Willow loves her now, the worse Donnie's treatment of her gets. I think that's a really clever device you've employed throughout, whether consciously or unconsciously. With every scene of love, there's always the stark scene of Donnie's hatred that pervades the fic as a whole, so far.



Your use of dialogue holds the Scooby scenes so far and above what I think a lot of writers "approximate" them to say. You nail the language and intonation perfectly, and that only serves to enhance the overall enjoyment of the fic, because it's just like watching an episode. Well, the way they used to be anyway. It's witty without being smug; detailed without being overwritten, and knowledgeable without being preachy. That's such a delicate tone you've brought to the narrative in that sense, and I really appreciate it. It's inclusive rather than exclusive, and the reader feels truly brought into the group, as opposed to being an observer.



Hokay...I've just realised that I'm rambling incessantly, so I shall desist, at last, heh. But I'm really looking forward to reading more of this story. As always, your writing does a lot of things and brings up a lot of ideas, but the one truism is that it entertains. A lot.

She's the cutest of the Kittens with her tits as warm as mittens and her firm yet supple...tight embrace...

[Patches]

Antigone, what an amazing story! I was looking for something to read tonight, and having consumed everything in the house, I sensed the muses calling me to the computer. I’m supposed to be writing now, but your story beckoned to me. Planned to read just a bit to get my brain in gear, write for an hour or so, then do the sensible thing and sleep, well it’s now 5:30 am and I have just devoured your story (and all the feedback) in one sitting. I’m so far behind in feedback, but so many others have so eloquently expressed my feelings for me, I’m left with “what they said!” And OMG! don’t they say it well. The insight and analysis in feedback from our learned Kittens is most impressive, and most instructional. Like do you guys read Roget’s for amusement; I seriously bow to you Antigone and to the Kittens’ superior intellect – my god, you guys are intimidating sometimes. But in a good way, who’d a thunk, to be entertained and enlightened at the same time is such a rare privilege! Now on to singing your praises...





Jeezus Murphy woman, you make me laugh and you make me cry – neither of which is something I particularly do much of these days. I avoid “emotional” things, but I was unable to stop reading – the story is so compelling. I came to pens to escape reality for a while and found myself face to face with an intimate understanding of Tara’s character and her experiences. I couldn’t quite get through the last bit choke free. Your words are moving. Like many others, I feel as though you’ve torn pages out of my life: the crush; the teasing; loss and the insecurity, god that was hard to read. You were able to handle it so carefully and with such sensitivity, to be able to smile and feel joy while slogging through elemental torment was a pleasant change. Just have to ask, did you intentionally use my older brother as the archetype for Donnie (much kidding ). Yes, those demons die so hard and slowly, mostly slowly.



I absolutely howl at your Scoobie gatherings – you peg the characters perfectly; the dialogue, euphemisms and scene pacing are terrific. You have brought my favourite show and my favourite characters back to life in the most wonderful way, through your words and imagination into my imagination. I loved the interaction between Willow and Donnie; I’ve always had a soft spot for the darker side of Willow. Donnie “thought” she was making fun of him – uh, dork, that’s exactly what she was doing. I dislike bullies, and Donnie is definitely the poster child for that campaign – grow up and get over yourself, you’re not that important, assh*le. I’m so looking forward to Willow and Tara beating the proverbial crap out of him. (I think your story has a strong cathartic effect.)



The relationship between Willow and Tara is wonderful -unconditional love, beautifully written throughout the story. Donnie’s attempt to use Tara’s past against her and giving Willow more reasons to smile about her is touching. You raise an interesting moral dilemma with Donnie, is he worth redeeming? Which prompts me to ask, who gets to be the judge (jury, executioner)? Had you not stated that his father beat him, I would have had an easier time dismissing him as a waste of space. However, given that we are, at least to some extent, products of our environment it is not so easy to do. One cannot necessarily change the things that happen, one can only change how one reacts to those situations. It’s tempting, as DMW hints, to have him made into brain candy for Glory. I’d like to see the girls give him the opportunity to do the right thing, to redeem himself – then when he doesn’t, Willow, Tara, awe heck, the whole Scoobie gang can reduce him to the point that not even Glory would want his pathetic sorry ass. Having a delightful time reading this



And on a lighter note. Here in the frigid cold (-20C and that’s just f*cking cold on any scale) north, they classified Tampax as a luxury item and slapped the goods and services tax on them. (Close your eyes guys, no offence to your sensitive souls, but)… I sear if men bled, Tampax wouldn’t be taxed, period. Gawd, it's so far past my bedtime, it's almost time to get up. I can’t wait for the next update. Thanks so much for this.



Cheers!!

Patches



ETA - you're not, by chance, thinking of one JW as the model for Donnie?

You know I've heard about people like me. But I never made the connection. They walk one road to set them free, And find they've gone the wrong direction. But there's no need for turning back 'cause all roads lead to where I stand. And I believe I'll walk them all No matter what I may have planned

Edited by: Patches at: 1/23/03 6:17:43 pm

[stereo33]

Another great update Mary.

Donnie's telephone conversation with Beth was more than a little disturbing, we'd seen a taste of his powers of persuasion with his Dad and that was nothing compared to what he pulled on Beth. I am also dreading (in a good way) what's in the box, (it's not going to be nice now is it?)



When Buffy was about to reveal the secret of the key I liked how Tara (with just a simple touch) encouraged Willow to stay silent and wait to see what Buffy had to say. I like these little and things



I don't know what you're trying to do to us but the conversation between Tara and her Mom was . Also, so sad for Tara in school, (which must have been incredibly difficult and lonely for her) that she felt time couldn't go fast enough, at least that was until her Mom became ill. Very very sad, but........... still looking forward to your update



Thanks Karen

[AntigoneUnbound]

Hey Kittens...



I'm sorry I haven't posted the latest update yet. This week has been rather difficult on various fronts and time truly got away from me. I promise to get the next chapter up early next week.



Tommo, Patches, and Karen: Each of you gave incredibly kind and thoughtful feedback. I'll respond to each of you before the next posting.



DarkMagicWillow, Debra, and Nick: I definitely haven't lost that lovin' feeling for each of your fics. I'll be responding to them early next week when I have the time to formulate ideas that are worthy of the stories that prompt them.



Thanks for your patience, folks; have a great weekend.

[VampNo12]

Mary, I just wanted to say no worries on the delay of this wonderful, thought-provoking story (it's so worth the wait). Really I am sorry to hear "the week has been difficult on various fronts", so I'm sending positive vibes for a happier upswing in the coming days . Hope you have a great weekend!



Vicki

[Patches]

Just wanted to say and send and to you. Joining in Vamp12's good vibe campaign.



Big Smiles!!

Patches

You know I've heard about people like me. But I never made the connection. They walk one road to set them free, And find they've gone the wrong direction. But there's no need for turning back 'cause all roads lead to where I stand. And I believe I'll walk them all No matter what I may have planned

[AntigoneUnbound]

Hello, Kittens. Again, I apologize for the long delay, but Part 9 is written and will be posted immediately after I reply to some final feedback. Thank you all for both your patience and for your incredibly gracious and supportive feedback to this story.



Ruth: What a delight to see your name on this thread! Thanks so much for checking it out. Your feedback, as ever, is so perceptive; you always seem to nail exactly what I’m trying to do. (If you were nailing who I’m trying to do, I’d probably be less enthusiastic about it, of course.) At the risk of blinding presumption, I chose to read in your feedback that I was succeeding in being understated; if that’s what you meant, I’m so happy, b/c that’s always a goal of mine. (And yet I gush, verbosely so, in responding to feedback—what’s that about?) You’re right: Donnie is a disconcertingly interesting character. He has to be if he’s going to work as an antagonist: If he’s a total pin-head, no one would find him credible or interesting as a potential foil, even if they know that he’ll ultimately be vanquished. You also pick up quite nicely on one of my favorite themes w/in the BtVS universe: human evil vs. demon evil. Yes, Glory and Donnie serve as twins of a sort in this story, and exactly in the way you described. I, too, find Donnie more horrifying, probably b/c I’ve met so many more people like him than I wish were the case. He’s a skulking, cowardly creature. And yes, the ongoing battle b/w good and evil is just endlessly compelling to me. Your feedback makes me wonder about the possibility of entropy: As Willow loves Tara more, is there some law within the universe that says Donnie must "supply" an equivalent amount of hatred to somehow balance the scales? An unnerving idea, that, and yet I can’t say that the state of the world today gives me bountiful reason to believe otherwise…



I’m glad you like the dialogue! I always have such a good time writing it. I think the characters, as they were at least initially presented to us in the show, are so vivid that it’s easy to summon up images of them chatting away about anything. Too bad the show has been so ungrateful these last two years…



Finally, you can ramble away on this thread any ol’ time you want to. Your comments are so thoughtful and they invariably spur me to think more deeply about the story I want to create. Thank you so much for taking the time to read this fic and offer such incredible feedback. You rock!



Patches: And again with the rocking! God, your feedback just had me smiling from ear to ear. I’ve definitely spent more than one night glued in front of my computer, drinking in the wonderful words of the Pens writers. I’m honored that you saw fit to do likewise with this story. Your feedback suggests that you know your way around a keyboard and a brain…Have you written anything here? If so, I’d love to read it. You’re absolutely right about the quality of ideas here on this thread (and elsewhere). I always love seeing new feedback and wondering what it will make me think about. There are incredible discussions about good and evil and, particular to your own question, redemption here in this fic. Ah, Donnie…can he be saved? Should he be saved? To what extent is he a product of his environment, esp. since we know that he was also beaten (and probably worse than Tara) by their father. I’m pretty sure I remember seeing feedback from you on Dark Magic Willow’s thread "The Dark Rose," so I’m not surprised to hear that you like your Willow with an edge. That seems to be a common theme lately.



And oh, yes, the joys of adolescence and adolescent sexuality…My favorite moment may have been in homeroom in the 11th grade, before the teacher arrived, when a boy several seats in front of me turned around and asked me point-blank (and in no way quietly), "Mary, are you a lezzie?" Everyone laughed, of course, except me, who made the ill-advised decision to reply, "That’s what your mother says." It led to one of the more unpleasant after-school exchanges I can recall. All that by way of saying that I share your mental aches and pains in that regard. You couldn’t pay me enough money to go back to that time…



Tampax…Don’t even get me started…I totally agree with your opinion about what would and wouldn’t be charged if men could menstruate. (Sounds like a theme for an afternoon talk-show, doesn’t it? "Men Who Bleed: Today, on Jerry Springer.")



Thanks for the wonderful comments, Patches; and what a great name, by the way. I also appreciate your kind words in the second post; you and Vicki are good souls. I hope your own Muse starts a-musin’ soon. Take care!



Karen: Glad you like the little touches. You know, I enjoy watching my favorite episodes over and trying to pick up on little glances, touches, moments that illuminated something about a character or a relationship. Also love watchin’ repeatedly just to see the girl-on-girl action, of course…And what’s in the box…? Patience, Clarice: all will be revealed. Thanks for following along and writing such great comments.



Vicki: Why am I not surprised to see kind thoughts coming from your neck of the woods? What a good person you are…Yes, I have mounted the Muse Horse once again; let’s hope she doesn’t throw me off like so many bags of grain, shall we? Thanks a lot for the support and encouragement!



OK—Here comes Part 9.

Ma

[AntigoneUnbound]

Gods Served and Abandoned

Disclaimers: I own everything in the known universe. (Please consider the preceding an ironic twist on my actual destitution.)
Spoilers: Up to season 5. I’ve played slightly with the timing of a certain Big Bad’s appearance, with some implications for Dawn’s entrance.
Rating: R for now; if it changes, I’ll give heads-up.
Distribution: Sure, with acknowledgement.
Feedback: Even more sure! Bring it on!


a. I think I've spelled "bocci" correctly. If I haven't, please forgive me.
b. Hey Sister Bertrille--see if you can find the tip o' the hat in your direction!

*****

Part 9

*****



"Donnie, you know I haven’t been feelin’ well, right?"

He paused, and then gave a small shrug of his shoulders. "I hadn’t really noticed."

His mother sat silently for a moment. Had he hurt her feelings? Was she sad?

"Well, I know you’ve been busy helping out all over the farm. You know, your daddy tells me all the time how much h-help you are." This last part was said almost hopefully.

He gave her what he hoped was his most bored, annoyed look. He’d been working on it for nineteen years; he figured he was pretty good at it. "So what’s up?"

He saw her take a deep breath that seemed to catch somewhere halfway up her throat. "Well, I w-went to the doctor, and he wanted to run some tests, so w-we did, and—"

"God, Mom, you sound just like Tara," he snorted. "Can’t the two of you ever just spit stuff out?"

And he wished, immediately, that he hadn’t said such a thing. Not because it was hurtful; he liked that part. But because of the look his mother was giving him now, the one that told him how she really felt, no matter how nice she tried to be. Her eyes were all narrow, like a cat catching sight of a very small mouse and trying to decide whether to bother with it or not. But she wasn’t that detached, he knew, because she had those two stark brushes of red, one on each cheek; hot, red swaths that looked like the back of his legs right after Daddy hit him with the belt. Daddy scared him with his belts, but his Mama could scare him with those eyes, like she was doing right now. And the only person he hated for it more than her was himself. She never hit him, never even looked like she came close to raising her hand…but she scared him worse than his daddy did.

"I don’t know what you got eatin’ at you inside, Donald. I’ve done my best to figure it out and it looks like I never will. Because here’s what’s eatin’ me, Donnie—I got cancer, and I got it bad, and odds are I won’t make it to your next birthday. So if you get to thinkin’ that maybe you’d like to let me in on something, I suggest you not wait until you’re done with the corn plantin’, Son, because it’ll be just a little too late by then." She stood and walked over to his door. Looking back over her shoulder, holding his gaze so tight that it never crossed his mind to look away, she said, "I love you, Donnie. I always have, and I always will. And I’d just as soon not die with things like this between us. But it looks like that’ll have to be your decision." And then she left, pulling the door shut softly behind her.

He sat unmoving in his dark, spare room for what seemed like another nineteen years. She was dying. His mama was dying. Just like he’d thought, when she kept getting sicker and sicker; the way her own mama had died ten years ago. She was going to go away and leave him alone.

And leave Tara alone.

He tried to figure out exactly what he felt, but he was very rusty at such things and none of the answers that came to his mind seemed to fit quite right.

*****

Buzzing back to Sunnydale after his clandestine exchange with Cousin Beth in the IGA parking lot, Donnie mulled over his choices. He liked the element of surprise, but he also wanted to draw things out so he could enjoy them more. Such things had always been a struggle for him. Even when they were kids, Tara always rationed out her Halloween candy so that she’d have some the next week. Him? He just plowed through it, sometimes barely tasting one thing because he was already thinking about what to eat next. Then again, it hadn’t really mattered because he knew that he’d just end up taking Tara’s stash, no matter where she tried to hide it.

When would she realize that she could never hide from him? She couldn’t hide herself, she couldn’t hide what she was afraid of, she couldn’t hide what she found precious. He always found everything. He always would.

*****

"Buffy, what are you talking about? Dawn’s the Key? That’s impossible! The Key’s older than the written word, and Dawnie’s all of fifteen! There must be some mistake, something in the translation, or maybe this is a trick to mess with your mind; you know Glory specializes in that…" Willow trailed off hopefully. Even as she was speaking, though, she knew that there had been no mistake. Buffy would have looked from every angle, through every lens, twenty times over in hopes that it was a mistake. No one could want this to be wrong more than Buffy, and if she was telling them this in such despairingly declarative fashion, it must be true.

Tara, she noticed, hadn’t voiced any such vehement denial. She was looking at Buffy with infinite compassion, and Willow knew then that Tara had already begun working out the implications of this news while her own brain was still trying frenetically to make it not so.

"How did you find out?" Tara was asking gently.

"A monk, at the factory where I met up with Glory. He told me…" She stopped, shuddering slightly. Willow could see that she was reliving the exchange. "He told me that his order had been in charge of protecting the Key, keeping it out of Glory’s possession. They finally figured that the safest way to do that was to change her into human form and send her to me. They knew I’d protect her with my life."

Tara brought her hand up gently and rested it on Buffy’s. Willow had noticed that Buffy seemed to accept gestures of kindness and compassion more readily from Tara than from those friends that she had known for years. Willow would have expected that she would feel some tweaking of jealousy about this, but oddly enough, she didn’t. Tara could cut to the emotional chase, it seemed, in ways that never left Buffy feeling weak or pitied.

Willow struggled to make sense of the incomprehensible. "But what about all of our memories? I mean, I taught Dawn to play chess three years ago, Buffy—way before Glory ever came on the scene. We all went to the Ice Capades the first year you were in Sunnydale. And God, all of the times you complained about having a younger sister—" She stopped abruptly, catching the look on Buffy’s face.

"Yeah. All of those times I complained about Dawn…Having to baby-sit her, having to drag her places, having to share my stuff with her…I’ve been resenting the hell out of her for stuff she never even did; stuff she couldn’t have done because—because she wasn’t around to do it." She gave a brittle laugh and dropped her head into her hands.

Giles had been watching all of this quietly from the shadows behind the table. Finally he spoke up.

"The monks took the energy of the Key and made it human, and then they delivered it to the one person they knew could and would protect it. In the process, they also gave all of us memories of Dawn. Each of us have believed, completely, that Dawn has been with Buffy’s family since Buffy was four."

Willow looked up sharply. "Buffy’s family? So Joyce believes it, too? Joyce thinks she gave birth to Dawn, the whole nine yards?"

Buffy looked at her steadily. "Everyone who would ever have had reason to come into contact with Dawn believes that they have come into contact with Dawn. They’d pass a polygraph test with flying colors."

"Oh God, Buffy—what are we going to do?" The first-person plural came out without a moment’s conscious thought on Willow’s part. Family was defined differently in the land of the Scoobies, and had now expanded to include mystical balls of energy.

"Dawn doesn’t know, right?" Tara asked anxiously. "I mean, you’re the only one who can really decide what to do, but…" Willow could see that she was torn between wanting to support Buffy in whatever decision she made and wanting to protect Dawn from unnecessary pain.

"No, you’re right. She doesn’t know, at least not yet. I figured it would help if I had some grip on the situation first, before we decide what, if anything, to tell her. I mean, it’s her life, so part of me feels like she has more right than any of us to know about this; on the other hand, it’s my job as the Slayer—" She broke off suddenly, and then her eyes narrowed slightly. "It’s my job as her sister to protect her. So we gotta figure out how to do that." She looked up questioningly. "Does that make sense?"

"Yeah, Buffy, it does." Willow smiled, determined to marshal those thousand stray thoughts into some semblance of a working herd. The work here was to help figure out how to protect Dawn, not deal with her own blown fuses. "So…what about your mom?"

Buffy sighed heavily. "That’s a tough one. I mean, Mom completely believes that Dawn’s her daughter…God, Dawn is her daughter in every way that means anything. So it seems like I should definitely tell her. But then I think, what good would that do? Especially with Mom being sick so much of the time lately. I mean, that seems like the last thing she needs. And I don’t want Dawn picking up on folks acting differently around her." She stopped, and looked up anxiously. "Do you guys think you can pull this off? Not let on to Dawn that anything’s up until I’m ready to tell her?"

"Buffy, I managed to convince Dad that I was straight before I left home," Tara promptly replied. Then she frowned slightly. "At least I think I did. Anyway, we’ll be the epitome of normal where Dawn’s concerned."

"Well, at least Willow can be normal," Buffy said with a wry, tired smile.

"What’s that supposed to mean?" Willow asked, feeling indignation wash up over her on behalf of Tara, who was looking at Buffy in hurt surprise.

"What Tara said—where Dawn’s concerned. You’re normal to her, Willow. Tara…Tara is currently the sun, moon, and two-thirds of the stars."

"So you’ve noticed it too, huh?" Willow asked triumphantly, looking at Tara with what she knew to be a look of supreme vindication.

"I suspect that anyone with even the slightest powers of perception would have noticed it," Giles confirmed drily.

"Well excuse me for being in the blue reading group instead of the red group where this is concerned," Tara said in what, for her, approximated a huff.

"Or anyone not so preternaturally modest as to find it incomprehensible that anyone would have a crush on her," Giles added pointedly.

"So anyway, Willow and I will both act the way we always act around her," Tara said, blushing. "What about your mom?"

A sharp knock at the door interrupted them. Xander and Anya were peering in owlishly. Giles went to let them in.

A few minutes later, the carpenter and the ex-demon sat silently, trying to digest the new information.

"But Dawn…Well, she’s had a crush on me for the longest time," Xander pointed out. "I remember how she always used to blush and stammer whenever I was around."

"That’s how Willow knew I had it bad for her," Tara said wryly. Xander seemed to have no reply for this except to blush and stammer himself, trying to eject some kind of reasonable apology from the loud, twin-engine plane of his mouth. Willow spared him.

"That’s old news that never was news, Xander. First of all, weall have lots of memories of Dawn, including Dawn herself, but apparently they were all planted by the monks. Secondly, in case you haven’t noticed, Dawn has moved on to bigger fish. As it were," she added, catching sight of Tara’s arched eyebrow.

"We were just trying to figure out what to tell Mrs. Summers, if anything," Tara said, in a not-terribly-subtle attempt to steer the conversation away from Dawn’s crush on her.

"But if Joyce believes she’s Dawn’s birth mother, won’t this just upset her?" Anya asked reasonably.

"That’s what I keep thinking," Buffy replied. Willow noticed that no one mentioned the statistical improbability of Buffy agreeing with anything Anya said. "But then I think, doesn’t she deserve to know? I mean, who am I to keep this kind of news away from her?" She was pacing again, arms crossed tightly over her chest.

"But what difference would it really make, Buff?" Xander was looking at her intently. "I mean, if you tell her, it’ll get her upset but she won’t be able to do anything about how she feels. She’ll just be, y’know, stuck with it. She’s not the Slayer; she can’t actually beat Glory. She’d just have to sit on the sidelines and pull like hell for the home-team. It’s a tough spot to be in." Willow realized that he could speak from personal experience more than anyone else in the room.

"But is that the point?" Buffy countered. "There’s the principle of the matter. A part of me feels like Mom just should know. Forget about all of this mystical energy hoo-ha—it involves her baby."

"The question before us really seems to be: do we opt for the functional thesis of morality or the idealized abstract?" Giles mused.

"And he just said…?" Xander whispered to Willow.

"Different kinds of good; what kind we choose?"

"Thanks."

Buffy had slumped back down in her chair. "I just don’t know…" She looked up sadly. "You don’t know how much I debated whether to even tell you guys or not." She held up a hand to forestall their protests. "Think about it. Now that you know this, you’re all in danger."

Tara looked up, startled. "Are you saying that being involved with all of you could lead to some kind of violence or fighting?" She turned to Willow and glared. "You never told me this. You said you all got together and made flower arrangements, and sometimes exchanged ideas on classical literature." Looking back at Buffy, she smiled apologetically. "I’m sorry, but this wasn’t at all what I signed up for. Do you know if there’s a sewing club in these parts?"

Willow grinned hugely. She loved seeing Tara’s Snidely Whiplash side come out. "Tara’s right, Buffy, in a really sarcastic kinda way that none of you are used to seeing. If we wanted to be snug in our beds when the scary part starts, we’d have taken up bocce."

Anya shifted beside her. "You never saw the kind of bocce tournaments I saw back in 17th-century Italy," she muttered, nudging Xander. "They made modern soccer tournaments look like Bingo night at the rest home."

Xander looked at her unimpressed. "You’ve never seen the kind of Bingo nights at the rest home that I’ve seen. My grandmother’s place, they make bocce look—"

"Yes, I’m sure someone here has a gripping tale of sharply-worded retorts at Quaker prayer meetings and the blood-lust that ensued," Giles sighed, "but let’s get back to the issue of Dawn as the Key."

Tara looked back at Buffy and gave her a gentle smile. "What we’re saying, Buffy, is that we all know the deal. You’re the Slayer, but we’re all part of something larger, and we all chose at some point to get involved with that."

Buffy returned her gaze. "When you fell in love with Willow and then found out about all of this, did you ever think about backing out? Or asking Willow to back out?"

Willow suddenly felt as if everyone else had disappeared, that only the three of them were left in the dimly-lit room, sitting around this old, round table.

Tara’s response was immediate, and she linked her fingers more tightly with Willow’s as she spoke. "Not for an instant. I would have opted for a life with Willow anywhere, under any circumstance. Everything that she is, I join myself to." Willow felt her throat tighten in a not-unpleasant way. "And no," Tara continued, "I never thought of asking Willow to stop fighting with you, or even cut back at all. It’s part of who she is. And I see now that it’s part of who I am. I was supposed to meet Willow, and be with her; and I was supposed to be a part of this fight. I wouldn’t change a moment of it." Then, unexpectedly, she laughed--a low, delightful sound. "Well, I might trade in that moment when I was banging on that door in your building and one of the Gentlemen opened it holding a fresh heart. I’m not sure that that really contributed to my development in any singular fashion." Willow wasn’t sure, but she thought she saw tears in Buffy’s eyes.

"What she said," Xander piped up. At Anya’s glare, he added, "Except the part about being with Willow. And personally, I’d like to swap that whole bug-eating incident with Dracula."

"And I’m supposed to be with Tara, and I’m supposed to be a part of this fight," Willow said proudly. "And for my trade-in, I’m offering up watching the Mayor’s head split open and seeing a big lizard rip out of him."

"Well, I don’t know that I’m supposed to be involved in some epic fight," Anya began, to no one’s surprise. "But I do know that I could quit if I wanted to, and I don’t, so that must mean something. Although I do wish I’d get paid," she added wistfully.

"Anything you’d like to offer up on the pile of denial?" Willow asked, feeling uncharacteristically warm toward the ex-demon.

"Oh, no—I’ve loved every minute of it," Anya enthused. "All the blood, all the entrails, all the indefinable fluids and smells…It’s been a good life…" She looked off and nodded nostalgically, as if reliving one of the more cut-throat Bingo nights in her own personal rest home.

They all sat quietly for a moment, mulling over thoughts of battles fought and impending, and silently reaffirming the rightness of their decisions and destinies.

Finally, Buffy stirred. "Well, I still have to decide what to do about Mom. And Dawn," she added. "But her I feel more OK about, at least for right now." Looking up, she met each of their eyes in turn. "Thank you. All of you. I can’t imagine what my life would be like without you." And then she smiled almost as if embarrassed, and pushed back her chair away from the table. As the others followed suit and moved toward the door, Buffy put her hand tentatively on Tara’s arm. Willow heard her ask softly, "Can I talk to you?" Catching Willow’s eye, she added, "Both of you. Can I walk you part of the way home?"

As they moved out into the chill night air, Buffy seemed to struggle for words. "Listen, Tara, I don’t know quite how to ask you this, but…but I thought you’d have some pretty helpful thoughts on the subject."

Part of Willow wanted to tease Buffy about possibly switching teams, but suspected that this wasn’t the night. She heard Tara ask softly, "What is it? You can ask me anything."

As if gathering her resolve, Buffy took a deep breath and stopped, turning to face Tara squarely. "Tara, I know that your mother died of cancer. I’m—God, I’m so sorry for bringing this up out of the blue—"

"Buffy, please don’t apologize. It’s actually harder for me when it seems like everyone’s so willing to pretend she never existed. I…I actually like any chance to talk about her."

How does she do that? How does she always know just what to say, even about things that hurt her?

"I get that; I mean, I can see where I’d feel the same way. It’s just that…Well, what I want to ask about actually involves her being sick."

"So ask. It’s OK, really." Tara was still looking at her patiently.

"It’s just, trying to decide what to do about telling Mom, especially now that she’s feeling so bad. I mean, I’m not trying to say that my mom is going through anything nearly as hard as your mother went through; God, I can’t even imagine—"

"You want to know what I would have done if I’d learned something really big after my mom got sick. You want to know if I would have told her." Tara’s voice was soft in the darkness; Willow could barely see the profile of her face.

"Yes. And Tara, if it’s too hard to think about, or if this seems like an unfair question, I’m so sorry. But…But I just wanted to hear your opinion," she trailed off weakly.

Tara reached out and took one of Buffy’s hands. "I don’t think it’s an unfair question at all. God, Buffy, you’ve just heard the kind of news that no one should ever have to hear, and you’re trying so hard to be good to everyone. You love your mother so much; how could I not want to help you?" Willow heard the slight catch in Tara’s voice as she said this last part.

Tara continued. "Buffy, no one can tell you what to do, and anyone who thinks they know what you should do…well, that person is a Poopy-head." She favored Willow with a quick grin.

"Well, thanks, Tara; but I really need to ask that you try to watch your language, at least around Dawn. She’s so impressionable where you’re concerned."

Ignoring this, Tara continued. "And I can’t pretend to know exactly what you’re going through. But you asked what I’d do: I wouldn’t tell her. Not yet. I think Xander made a really good point earlier: your mom would want to do something to protect Dawn, and she can’t. Of all the amazing things your mother can do, this isn’t one of them. You can do it, with our help. But it would be so hard on your mom to feel helpless about one of her children. I think it’s good that you’re not being all presumption-girl, assuming you know what’s best and that you have the right to play gate-keeper with all the important stuff. But you just learned this yourself; you’re still dealing with the shock of it all. Maybe it will be right to tell her later, but for right now, give her this time. Give yourself this time, Buffy."

Willow watched as Buffy nodded slowly, and then suddenly pulled Tara into her arms, hugging her fiercely. Over Tara’s shoulder, Buffy asked Willow, "Anybody ever tell you your girlfriend’s pretty much the greatest thing since espresso?"

"Yeah—Dawn. Pretty much every day, in pretty much every way," Willow replied with a faux scowl. "Don’t make me beat up your sister, OK?"

Buffy gave what appeared to be her truest smile of the night. "I dunno, Will…the girl’s a ball of energy, in more ways than one, it appears. She might just take you." And then she gave Willow a quick hug before heading off to her own house and her own precious family.

Willow turned to face Tara and took her face gently into her hands. "You know that you’re the wisest of any of us, right? I know everything about computers and science, and Buffy has all this slayer power, and Xander…Well, anyway—you’re the one with actual wisdom, Tara Maclay."

The heat under her fingers told her that her girlfriend was blushing. Feeling a different kind of heat--delicious, twisting--within her own skin, she added, "And wise chicks turn me on like nothing else."

She felt Tara’s mouth twist into a smile. "So why are we walking?" And so saying, she grabbed Willow’s hand and pulled her into a swinging, giggling lope toward their room.

*****


To Be Continued


Edited by: AntigoneUnbound at: 1/30/03 6:31:43 pm

[Bagheera]

Hi - hope all's on the mend. It's good to see more of this story.

I particularly like the way this reads as a tale of two families - one, loyal, loving, perfect almost to a fault (and the fault's name begins with an "X"), the other family dark, twisted and dysfunctional. Well, Donny and Nathan are, anyway.



And Willow and Tara - just....wonderful. Unity, courage, humour and just a little sauce on top.



Regards,

B

"I am a girl. I am nice. I can play. I can jump. I can sleep." My daughter's first essay (aged 5)

[Grimlock72]

The talk between Tara's mother and Donnie didn't give me as clear a picture of Donnie as I had expected. Still can't entirely figure out why he's behaving like he does. Granted his behaviour is simply not excusable but I do wonder why he seems to have this idea that his mother really hates him (and tries to hide that).... seems kinda weird.



He still thinks he is the big brother from which Tara wont be able to hide. Good, good... I prefer him thinking that. Would be even better if he thought he could fly actually... : -->



The rest of this update was basicly the handling of Dawn being the key and not-really-human. My problem with that is the same as with the TV version, all the charachters at least have memories of Dawn to fall back on. I don't. As such I see her more as an intrustion (trouble-magnet more like it), or at least as a bad choice of form by the monks. It's far easier to hide a bicycle-pump for example Those monks didn't exactly make Buffy's job any easier, at least the knights have the right idea (their excution sucks though ).



Of course Joyce should be told, either you tell her yourself under controlled circumstances or she finds out on her own... pick the best option. Doesn't mean Buffy has to tell her right this instant of course, but she should tell Joyce once she is a bit better. Besides, not telling a mother something about her children sounds like an awfull thing to do. (and knowing the scoobs it wont hold either)



I wonder why exactly Buffy asked Tara and the other scoobies if they wanted to stay and fight. Is she that unsure of her friends or the upcoming fights ? Or does she want all of them to help keep her sisterly ball of energy alife (is a ball alive?) as opposed to saving the world ? Bit confusing, then again... Buffy herself is likely confused as much It is nice to see them all be nicely supportive of each other though. I've always thought the show glossed over the impact a revalation like this would have on the scoobies... think _Superstar_ times 13*365... which is a LOT.



How much of season 5 is going to be in this fic anyway ? Lots of holes to fill, heh. Lets not discuss entire season5 here though Enough of my Dawn rambling, I'll try really hard to gloss over here being not-real. Honest :-).



Btw. I wouldn't nessecarely call what Tara has/did 'wisdom', more like 'compassion'. Of which she hands out lots and lots, true enough. Compassion ain't always wise though, Tara should be carefull with that in mind.



P.S. Updates once a week are fine with me, no need to feel all guilty. Feel free to post more often of course, just don't promise more then you can deliver. That will just make you feel sad... can't have that



Grimmy

"You hurt Tara," Willow said too calmly. "The last one who tried that was a god. I made her regret it." -- Unexpected Consequences by Lisa of Nine

Edited by: Grimlock72 at: 1/30/03 3:47:43 pm

[Sister Bertrille]

First things first. It’s bocce. Yet another reason to be thankful for my crazy Italian mother, who is looking more and more like Sophia Loren crossed with the Virgin Mary compared with the festering pile of trick or tricking dysfunction that is la famiglia Maclay. How exhausted must they all be, what with all the thrusting and parrying, ducking and dodging over the Rice Krispies!



Stick me in a dress and strap me to a log-cutting machine if I didn’t get the tip o’ the black top hat, although for a minute I thought it was this: “[S]he just plowed through it, sometimes barely tasting one thing because [s]he was already thinking about what to eat next.” If I had a mustache I would curl it, but since I don't, I'll just blush instead!



So with the stealing of the Halloween candy, Donnie has pretty much committed every deadly sin except sloth. And not in a good way, either!



I found this intriguing:

Quote:

---

But because of the look his mother was giving him now, the one that told him how she really felt, no matter how nice she tried to be. Her eyes were all narrow, like a cat catching sight of a very small mouse and trying to decide whether to bother with it or not.

---

How reliable a focalizer is Donnie here? He is quite astute, emotional limitations aside. Does his mother really see him as, well, prey, and if so, since when? Or is Donnie just projecting his own blood lust?



Good to have you back,



SB

[AntigoneUnbound]

Hey folks: Just edited the story to read "bocce," per Sister Bertrille's helpful clarification. Just couldn't live w/ myself if I didn't...



Bagheera: Things are looking up; thanks for asking. It felt good to get back to this story. Thanks for following and writing.



Grimlock: See what you think of Donnie's character, particularly re: motivation, as it emerges over time. I'm curious to see what folks think of him when all's said and done. I dunno...I think Tara's being both wise and compassionate in her response to Buffy, but maybe that's the beautiful thing about wisdom and other such abstract notions: no one has the final dictionary entry on it. We all have our own unique definitions, I think...Thanks for reading the story and taking the time to write back such thoughtful feedback.



Sister Bertrille: Thanks for the spelling lesson. Mistakes like that make me crazy when I'm the one making them. One of my favorite t-shirts reads, "Does anal retentive have a hyphen?" I truly fret over such things in writing. Now--the tip o' the computer hat: If I'm not mistaken, you referred to liking a little "Snidely Whiplash" in your stories and in your Willow. Maybe my memory is a little shot...Anyway, that was for you, and if I'm mistaken, well, so much for in-jokes. And how reliable/accurate is Donnie in his perceptions? How did his mother look at him? Could he interpret her behavior w/ anything akin to objectivity? If not, when and why did such distortion start? And who's behind all this reality TV programming, anyway? (Sorry--just got a little carried away there.) I hope that his character makes sense for you over time, even if you don't like him, which you most assuredly won't. Thanks for following this and writing your always-inspired feedback.

[The Rose24]

Geez. What is Donnie's problem? How can he not notice his mother is sick. He is such a neanderthal.



The exchange between W/T is touching. I love how Tara is totally supportive of Willow's extra-curricular activities and he promise to stick with Willow through all of the tough times.

Tara: My heart doesn't stutter.


Tara: Willow, I got so lost.

Willow: I found you. I will always find you.

[Patches]

Hey Antigone, (err, question here – when do people get the privilege of using people’s names, you know – like you sign your stuff Mary, and other people call you Mary, and I don’t like to be presumptuous – but if I can be, I will, so if it’s okay with you, I’ll start this again.)



Hey Mary, glad you found time to put this up for us. Am hoping this is a sign of better times (even slightly better times, just a little bit. ) for you. Before I plough into my thoughts on this chapter – ya, I kinda liked the power and surety that came to Willow’s character from the magic (and wardrobe, did I say Aly in leather ); there’s just something about her (ignoring the inane ME use of it) that sparks my, um, interest. Anyway, no I haven’t written anything for pens yet (but have a Valentine’s Fic formulating) – just have to get over the intimidation factor. And now on with the show …



Enjoying your portrayal of Donnie, he’s the psych 101 students’ dream. You give us important insight into his character from his (and Tara’s) past; the hurtful, scared, insecure little boy with definite abandonment issues. His childhood recollections detail the bully in the making. Grappling with the issue of what defines or makes a person evil is difficult. I believe this is where choice comes in; he had a choice and clung to the familiar patterns instead of grasping the hope that was offered him by his mother. “He sat unmoving in his dark, spare room for what seemed like another nineteen years,” and “He tried to figure out exactly what he felt, but he was very rusty at such things and none of the answers that came to his mind seemed to fit quite right,” really define him.



The Hallowe’en memory is quite symbolic and reveals much of his fundamental character, an impulsive, ID driven person who takes what he wants simply because he can – though at this point his character seems to be amoral, not yet immoral, but well on his way in the wrong direction. I can’t wait until he tries to take on Willow and Tara. Heh heh. He doesn’t understand that Tara’s changed but he hasn’t.



Again, enjoying the Scoobie exchanges – they’re just so, um, Scoobie like, and so true to character. You reveal important themes and deal with sensitive issues subtly and with humour. (Humm, different kinds of good, different kinds of evil.) Giles being Giles and exasperatedly trying to keep them focused. Anya contributing in her own interminable way, and Willow, I especially liked this exchange:

The question before us really seems to be: do we opt for the functional thesis of morality or the idealized abstract?" Giles mused.

"And he just said…?" PATCHES whispered to Willow.

"Different kinds of good; what kind we choose?"

"Thanks."



Then there’s Tara, I really like your development of her character. Tara is the Sophia of this story, she is wisdom and it was great to see you utilize her in this way with Buffy and the Scoobies when dealing with the issue of Dawn and Joyce. Btw, the revelation of Dawn’s crush on Tara and Tara’s reaction to it was hilarious. Tara is wise, but not necessarily always observant.



Great update, thanks for this story. It’s a lot of fun to have the real Buffy alive and well. Mary, you rock girl!



Cheers!!

Patches



Edited because ezboard emoticons had a nervous breakdown and ran away with half my sentences.

You know I've heard about people like me. But I never made the connection. They walk one road to set them free, And find they've gone the wrong direction. But there's no need for turning back 'cause all roads lead to where I stand. And I believe I'll walk them all No matter what I may have planned

Edited by: Patches at: 1/30/03 11:13:28 pm

[Penrose Orleans]

First thing's first- great update, up to all measures of greatness... I continue to enjoy reading your characterizations- in some fics, one goes through dialogue as quickly as possible, maybe pretending that it doesn't suck so much... definitely not so here!



On to the update... I have to say that I really sympathized with Donnie in this part *prepares for the barrage of rotten vegetables sure to come her way*- he was barely more than a child, never able to satisfy his mother, always knowing that Tara was the more beloved, and the more his frustration turned to bitterness and rage, the less he could even see the love his mother did have for him... of course, this excuses none of his actions in later life, but that doesn't mean that we, as omniscient readers, can't feel upset at Mrs. Maclay for so obviously taking sides, and have sympathy for Donnie (not that he's an angel, of course, just pitiable).



On to probably unpopular opinion #2... it made me a little nervous to see the part end the way it did. Let me clarify, here- I *adore* W/T lovin', the scene was touchnig, and it was also extremely well-written. I just don't know how I feel sbout Willow always praising Tara as superior to the rest of them in some way... seems to play against the concept of a relationship of equals (this is actually more of a comment on W/T fanfic in general, not so much about you!)... I'd like to see good traits of Willow's- I know she's not immature, or not wise...



As for the important issue of Dawn being the Key... meh, they could tell Joyce, they could not tell Joyce... the important thing is to keep Dawn safe!



Anyway, though I'm more of a Gloomy Gus than usual in this review (could be the 5 page Spanish essay about love in Baroque poetry), I want to re-iterate that this is an amazing piece of work, and that you should be very proud! -Nora

"The sound of laughter is like the vaulted dome of a temple of happiness."



"No matter how much we scorn it, kitsch is an integral part of the human condition."-Milan Kundera

[deixs]

I have alwways knwon that Tara is the wisest!!!

Good, she really turns me on



Stef

Willow: Hey, clothes!

Tara: Better not get used to 'em.

Willow: Yes ma'm

[JustSkipIt]

Mary,



Woo Hoo! and update. Thanks so much.



You know what I love so much about your writing? (ok, besides W&T first time together in OST?) Your dialog. It is the best there is here on the pens board IMHO. I love it. The entire interaction between the scoobies ranges between sweet and sensitive and hysterically funny. Everyone rolls seamlessly through the conversation extracting and inputting the necessary pieces with such ease. I love it. Also, this was probably one of the most "normal" depictions of Anya I've ever seen in a pens story so good job there. Awesome update. Debra

---

"War may be a necessary evil. But no matter how necessary it is always evil." - President Jimmy Carter after receiving the Nobel Peace Prize



"Use your imagination not to scare yourself to death but to inspire yourself to life." - Adele Brookman

[Sister Bertrille]

Hey Antigone,



Never fear, I did get the reference:

Quote:

---

Stick me in a dress and strap me to a log-cutting machine if I didn’t get the tip o’ the black top hat...

---

Black-hatted, mustachioed Snidely was always tying damsel-in-dis(d)ress Nell Fenwick to railroad tracks or log-cutting machines. Not nearly as complex as Donnie (although just as obsessed), but a much better dresser!



Curses, foiled again!



SB

[Grimaldi]

great update



could Donnie be anymore of a cold hearted bastard, he finds out that his mom is dying from cancer and yet he shows no emotion (by the way i really like your portrayal of Donnie, he makes a pretty good villian).



the conversation between the Scoobies about Dawn was good, i liked how Buffy was soliciting advice about what to do and if everyone still wanted to be involved. i also liked Buffy talking to Tara about if she should tell her mom, it shows that she accepts Tara not only as Willow's girlfriend, but that she is also a part of Buffy's life and family.

You can't just go declaring shenanigans on innocent people, that's how wars get started!
I'm not stealing, I'm just taking things without paying for them. In what twisted dictionary is that stealing?