General Season 6 Spoilers - Part 9

[Ari]

Here's another tidbit. From the 'possible foreshadowing' category.

From Bargaining II:

ANYA: They could be hurt. Xander could be lying somewhere broken and bleeding, calling out my name.
TARA: Anya.
ANYA: Like that, oh god! What if, what if they're really hurt, what if they're dead?

Very interesting considering they've now set up the idea that Ven..err, I mean Justice Demons can be 'summoned' by calling out their name.

Ari

[bzengo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Corinthian:
I stand by my assumption. (7+3 = 10, add a 0 on the end = 100
Don't forget, the end of season 3 was the end of high school, and Buffy died in her first year of college towards the end of term, and with summer break factored in, it was closer to 365 days.

As for the clock being called "wrong", I think Joss was inferring "Buffy won't stay dead."

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Um, no. Sorry.

SMG said in an interview last summer, that when she first read "Counting down from 7-3-0" in the script, she went to Joss and asked him to explain. After swearing her to keeping it quiet, he told her a) that she was going to die at the end of Season 5, and b) that 730 was the number of projected days from when that episode aired to when the Season 5 final episode aired.

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bzengo

Joss I love invoking all those (old horror) movies, but at the same time, the core of this series, emotionally, is a very safe place.

Joss (Sun Aug 30, 1998)
. . . Sooooo, someone is hoping this season will be less traumatic? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

edited to make my point clearer, and to fix spelling.

[This message has been edited by bzengo (edited March 15, 2002).]quote:

[Katharyn]

Mmmmn naked sex... but what follows that...

Joss has pulled the whole sex=punishment thing before of course but in this case I would hazard a guess that it is a dramatic device to emphasise the completeness of the W/T reconciliation and nod to fans who have wanted it for a long time!

What it also might be is a affirmation of the value and intergrity of the W/T relationship in a show that has shied away from a kiss for so long that it hurt... NOt that it needs any validation to us but there are those who *whisper it* don't like W & T.

I like to think that this is a good sign - that to then obliterate said relationship in a permanent way will become more unlikely.

Katharyn

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You hear that baby?

[This message has been edited by Katharyn (edited March 15, 2002).]

[Grimaldi]

I really hope that if they do a reset, it is not because of the fan reaction to the spoilers that have come out. It wouldn't change the fact that they reduced Tara to a plot device so that Willow would be the Big Bad.

After listening to what Amber said on loveline, Joss is a cruel man for first having Willow and Tara make wild monkey love(sorry about the bad pun), then kill Tara. Does he like torturing the audience that much?

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"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time"

"I bent my wookie"

[minion]

quote:

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Originally posted by Grimaldi:
Does he like torturing the audience that much?

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Yes

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I am in thunderous agreement, oh glittering, glistening Glorificus! : Jinx in Tough Lovequote:

[JBC]

I've just posted a transcript of Amber's conversations in the loveline thread. However, parts of it were spoilery, so I placed them here (before I faced the wrath of the mods. ^_^)

I see that some of Amber's quotes already made it here, though.

AB: I just spent some lovely lesbian time actually.

D: Lovely lesbian time?

AB: Yes, I was naked in bed … well, I wasn’t naked because I had modesty clothing on. But I was in bed with my lover on the show and we were…

A: Willow?

AB: Willow yes. (a squishing sound is heard in the background). Yes, there we go that lovely sound. [Amber doesn’t sound amused…]

A: Is modesty clothing like pasties and a fig leaf or something?

AB: It’s more like a bandau thing [??sp huh?? don’t know this word] and like boxer shorts.

A: So that when you pull the covers down, it can appear that you’re naked but if you stop at a certain point…

AB: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. They’re stuffed. [?? Huh??]

A: I always thought that was distracting like in those James Bond movies. He bangs the beejezus out of her all night and then the next morning, she holds the cover up as she climbs out of bed (Amber is laughing through all of this) like a matador.

AB: Yeah!

A: I’m always like “Honey …”

AB: He’s already seen it.

A: Yes!

AB: Been there done that.

A: He smelled it too. (Amber laughs) What’s the deal with holding the sheet up? It’s distracting to me is all.

AB. It was for you ‘cause then with the voyeurs … you know…

That's the end of the spoilery section!

[The Partyman]

With the numbers on the shirts thing.

Loads of theorys went arount earlier this season, ther best one I saw being numercial indicators for a Tarot card reading.

In Tarot, numbers correspond to different cards, so by taking the numbers worn by each character we can use the cards to predict future events.

The predictions in this theory have all come true so far this season, if I remember correctly.

[shannon720]

Partyman - What did the numbers mean?

[Feena]

Sorry in advance for the long post :-)

Originally posted by Nightspirit:
“Anyway, Popje's post got me thinking... Does anyone here know anything about Egyptian lore? Specifically, the Tale of Osiris? Because I don't know about it, and I really would like to- it doesn't seem like Willow's completed her part of the "Bargain-ing" yet. I'm wondering why ME chose to use the name Osiris, and if it could fit with the recent spoilers.”

This is so weird – I put ‘urn’ ‘osiris’ into Google, got loads of hits, mostly Buffy-related. I clicked on a page number at random – page 8. Scrolled down & found this, one of the few non-buff entries….

These are texts relating to the philosophy of Thelema, many of them written by the occultist Aleister Crowley who founded the organization A.'. A.'. (Argentium Astrum -- the Silver Star) as well as others by members of the OTO (Ordo Templi Orientis -- Order of the Eastern Temple) (founded by Theodor Reuss and Karl Kellner in 1895). These two organizations work together to promote Thelema.

Across the Gulf
A fantastic account of a past life in Egypt. It´s principal interest lies in the fact that it´s story of the overthrowing of Isis by Osiris may help the reader to understand the meaning of the overthrowing of Osiris by Horus in the present Aeon.

And he went on to explain how it was that Nature should no longer be the centre of man's worship, but Man himself, man in his suffering and death, man in his purification and perfection. And he recited the Formula of the Osiris as follows, even as it hath been transmitted unto us by the Brethren of the Cross and Rose unto this day:

"For Asar Un-nefer hath said:
He that is found perfect before the Gods hath said:
These are the elements of my body, perfected through suffering, glorified through trial.
For the Scent of the dying rose is the repressed sigh of my suffering; The Flame-Red fire is the energy of my undaunted Will; The Cup of Wine is the outpouring of the blood of my heart, sacrificed to regeneration;
And the Bread and Salt are the Foundations of my Body
Which I destroy in order that they may be renewed.
For I am Asar triumphant, even Asar Un-nefer the Justified One!
I am Her who is clothed with the body of flesh,
Yet in Whom is the Spirit of the mighty Gods.
I am he Lord of Life, triumphant over death; he who partaketh with me shall arise with me.
I am the manifestor in Matter of those whose abode is in the Invisible. I am purified: I stand upon the Universe: I am its Reconciler with the eternal Gods: I am the Perfector of Matter; and without me the Universe is not!"
All this he said, and displayed the sacraments of Osiris before them all; and in a certain mystical manner did we all symbolically partake of them. But for me! in the Scent of the dying Rose I beheld rather the perfection of the love of my lady the Veiled One, whom I had won, and slain in the winning!
………
NOW then the great exhaustion took hold upon me, and I fell at the feet of the Osiris as one dead. All knowledge of terrestrial things was gone from me; I entered the kingdom of the dead by the gate of the West. For the worship of Osiris is to join the earth to the West; it is the cultus of the Setting Sun. Through Isis man obtains strength of nature; through Osiris he obtains the strength of suffering and ordeal, and as the trained athlete is superior to the savage, so is the magic of Osiris stronger than the magic of Isis. So by my secret practices at night, while my guardians strove to smooth my spirit to a girl's, had I found the power to bring about that tremendous event, an Equinox of the Gods.

I’ve no idea if any of this could mean anything at all, but “triumphant over death” sounds good!!!

[This message has been edited by Feena (edited March 15, 2002).]

[The Partyman]

quote:

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Originally posted by shannon720:
Partyman - What did the numbers mean?

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Ahhh!

I'll try and find it an post it later tonight. I don't think I have it on the hard drive so may have to type it out!
quote:

[april]

my god joss is evil. giving us a naked w/t love scene in the same ep where he kills tara. it's just too much for me to handle.

that being said, this makes pretty much all of our w/t dreams come true. in the end, w/t were given the exact same treatment as any other couple on the show, and allowed to show as much as any other couple. in fact, depending on the nature of the love scene, they will have shown *more* than certain straight canon couples, including xander/cordelia, willow/oz and xander/anya.

it's all horribly bittersweet because of tara's death, but the implications of this sex scene are staggering. a gay couple on a mainstream, not gay-focused show has NEVER been treated the same as the show's straight couples before, in terms of what they're allowed to show onscreen.

for that reason alone, even if tara doesn't come back, my hat is off to joss & co for a truly groundbreaking show.

and if tara comes back, i'll worship at their feet forever.

[BBOvenGuy]

The numbers on the shirts meant nothing. They were fashionable for a while and that's what the wardrobe department bought. I've seen number shirts being worn on other shows, too, most notably Gilmore Girls.

[Popje]

Feena - pretty cool - I really like the "flaming red" part...
You know, we should be flattered that ME is giving W/T the maximum angst that they can. The last time they had a climactic love scened followed by extreme couple pain was back in season 2 when Buffy slept with Angel and he tranformed into Angelus. So I'm flattered that ME chose W/T for the excrutiating narrative pain they're about to endure. I guess I'm hoping there's a way for tara to come back. Buffy and Angel got the break. So I'm hoping Willow and Tara do too. It's just I don't see ME having the choice using a spell to bring her back from the dead. I mean how many times did Tara say she did't think it was right...dead is dead...and that people can come back wrong, and it's tampering with the laws of nature...

darn those ME people they're making me schizoid.

[willowtarasandwich]

I've just been rewatching Restless and the two dream sequences with Buffy and Faith, and there are a couple of things that I'm not sure if they've happened or not.

First, with Buffy and Faith, there is a cat and Buffy asks who is going to look after that. As this was S3, before Tara came along, is it seen as a reference to Miss Kitty? Or is it something totally different.

Second, in Restless, Tara shows Buffy a tarot card - I take it that is important too, but has that been dealt with yet?

Hell, for just a tv programme, they don't half mess with our brains, don't they!!

[Warduke]

Popje, Tara is against resurrection spells but this is not what people have been talking about, we’ve been talking about a wish being reversed, not that same thing at all.

And like what’s been said many times before, this isn’t just to bring Tara back, all the characters will be screwed after Tara’s death, so this “reset” option really needs to happen, because there wouldn’t be much of a show to watch next season (a show that I wouldn’t never watch again if Tara stays dead.)

[Ari]

I was talking to a friend about what all's going to be going down at the end of the season, what we knew and what was being speculated about and she had a really interesting point. What if we're looking at all this in the wrong way?

What if the question isn't necessarily how it's going to end?

What was it Ed said? The simplest answer is usually the right one, or something like that.

There never is a really serious question of how a season is going to end. The BigBad has to be defeated. The question is always; how will that happen? How will Buffy defeat Glory/ADAM/Angelus/The Mayor/The Master when things seem so hopeless and overwhelming? What kind of price is going to have to be paid to save the day?

If a wish is granted in 19 and is the catalyst for things going all to shit, then it'll be clear enough what the BigBadness is. (It's probably not a coincidence that 19 is the ep we seem to know almost nothing about.) The question then becomes; how bad will it get? And how will it be overcome?

I mean, how will they all die? Willow, Buffy, Dawn, Spike? What would put Xander's life in so much danger that Anya might be motivated to set everything right again?

Just a thought.

Ari

[Popje]

Hi Warduke, I wasn't arguing that the wish-reset button wasn't an option still out there. I just pointing out that I don't think they'd go the route of Willow's magic bringing her back. 'Cause if they did, then death wouldn't have much meaning on the show anymore, and it would put Will in the "really scary person" category. It would also be definately against Tara's wishes. So Wish-reset button a top option. Mind you we’ve seen this done already with the Cordy/Anyanka showdown…so I can’t help but think ME wouldn’t want to repeat itself and make it that easy. I’m sticking to my theory that the finale's "everything will be all right" has something to do with Slayer power putting things right. I mean, as others have pointed out, where’s the Buffy, in these BtVS spoilers

[Warduke]

Popje, I had a feeling you were talking about Willow doing a resurrection spell but I wasn't sure, so I just wanted to make sure about the wish thing.

I'll tell you, Anya, Halfrek or Buffy, I don't care how it happens, just as long as we get our Tara back at the end, with her Willow and have dark Willow and dead Tara just be a very nasty memory.

On to many more sex scenes in S7 for our girls

[sam7777]

From TBCS:

quote:

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Unable to curse Xander with the help of other Scoobies, Anya goes to someone who actually hates Xander: Spike. Unfortunately though, her efforts to get him drunk and trick him into wishing Xander bodily harm take a turn for the twisted and the two very drunk demons end up trying to sooth their broken hearts by moving on...with each other. What the two don't realize though is that a hidden camera in the Magic Box catches the whole event on camera, allowing the entire rest of the gang and the Trio to witness it.

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I wonder if the turn for the twisted goes beyond Anya/Spike getting it on and leads to events in ep 19 and 20 with Tara getting killed and Willow going all dark magicky. I'm guessing that we won't know for sure until the end of the season. Mean Joss.

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"Curiouser and curiouser. . . "quote:

[Mr_A24]

Despite the skepticism I think all of us spoiler ho's should say thank you to all of our spoiler sources. Black sheep mysterioso, Ed, AutumnT, Herc, Wanda, Wendy, and everyone else who shares what they know and have heard, I say thanx for taking the time.

But I should also add that my thanks is given whether you tipped a hundred bucks, or just tossed a quarter on the mattress.

[Corinthian]

quote:

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Originally posted by xita:
Let's not spread misinformation. They are currently only filming 20. We know that they don't have sex in 18 and she dies in 19. So only one conclusion, sex in 19.

[This message has been edited by xita (edited March 15, 2002).]

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Sorry Xita. It was not my intention to do this. It was purely wishful thinking but I can see your point clearly.quote:

[Epicurus]

UPN better allow this sex scene to make it to air.

Ok so now...
We find out from the script that Tara dies.
Fans go insane.
Fans blast DeKnight.
Location Shoot scouting practically confirms Tara's imbending doom.
Amber goes on the radio and shares a hugh happy spoiler.
All this within a week's time.
Very interesting if you ask me.

Joss won't let us down.
Joss won't let us down.
Joss won't let us down.
I've said it enough times and I'm 100% convinced.

Until I know that she doesn't in fact make it back by the end of episode 22, I'm staying as happy as a pig in shit. The next month will ruin me if I don't.

[Dr.G]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mr_A24:
Despite the skepticism I think all of us spoiler ho's should say thank you to all of our spoiler sources. Black sheep mysterioso, Ed, AutumnT, Herc, Wanda, Wendy, and everyone else who shares what they know and have heard, I say thanx for taking the time.

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Funny you should leave out AngelX. So I'll say thanks to AngelX, Autumn, Gift of Amber, and Dark Sheep.

[This message has been edited by Dr.G (edited March 15, 2002).]quote:

[drlloyd11]

On the topic of "Ed the Spoiler"
Based on his spoilers he has posted so far, and things in ep 18 and 20 we know about. I can not confirm his veracity. Ok? It seems likely based on what he has explained (but not certain by any means) that he is telling us what we want to hear..
Thats fine, but if peoples hopes get up over it...
No one hurts my Fellow Kittens...
Its been over a week since I first heard of the BSD, I think I was the first Kitten to hear it. Angelx IMed when she got the scripts in the mail and read them to me..
the she said "oh shit".. and then "I'm sorry".. It took ten minutes total to find out all the details..
This is all very raw for me and it gets me angry with little effort, so I may be a little OTT here. Sorry...

[Dr.G]

Oh it's ok Brad, thank you for checking. But I remain skeptical in any case, though I still like what Ed has to say and am willing to hear more. We will just have to wait and see.

[TyRex316]

quote:

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Originally posted by april:

it's all horribly bittersweet because of tara's death, but the implications of this sex scene are staggering.

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I find it staggering in it's cruelty and say what you will a lot of unspoiled people are going to take this hard, very hard. Makes me sick just to think about it. At least we have hope(even if it may be wishful thinking). I've been debating whether or not to even tape this ep because that one scene alone is overbalancing, in my mind, any goodness in any others. Not to mention the scene is eerily reminiscent of the death of the actress(Rebecca Schafer(sp?)) where a crazed fan shows up at her apartment and just shoots her.

[This message has been edited by TyRex316 (edited March 15, 2002).]quote:

[tommo]

quote:

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Originally posted by Warduke:
On to many more sex scenes in S7 for our girls

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Oh Brian, what would I do without you. Move along the bus now. Plenty of room at the back.

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You know I've been through hell...Joss can't you see, there'll be nothing left of me. You made me believe...quote:

[Ari]

You know, it's obviously going to be horrible for everyone to watch Tara be murdered and all that.

But I'm still thinking that we are currently caught in a circle of Whedon's Inferno wherein spoiler hos are punished and tortured by being given just enough spoilage to inspire general panic while leaving out the vital information that puts everything in context.

If there is a reset, wishes, spells or otherwise, it'll have to come down to whatever happens in 19. Because if everything that goes so wrong can be stopped, then that means it probably all has to go back one way or the other to a single catalyst. One thing that can be changed which changes everything else. And whatever it is, it's entirely possible, or even probable, that the people who don't spoil themselves will have a much clearer idea of how it all can be resolved before they ever have to see the murder. And therefore be saved much of the speculative torture that we are putting ourselves through.

Which is kind of clever, in a sadistic, diabolical sort of way.

Ari

[Rally]

New spoilers from AngelX posted at her board here.

Here are the highlights:

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From Episode 18 - Entrophy:

* NEW! When Buffy and Spike run into each other while on patrol, they chat and Spike again raises the issue of Buffy confessing to her friends about her "relationship" with him. Although she doesn't want to, Buffy's confident her friends will get over it since they dealt with her trying to kill them.

* NEW! After discovering the camera planted at Buffy's house, Xander suspects Spike is behind the spying and Buffy confronts him on the issue. He isn't responsible, but his anger towards Xander only increases when Buffy seems to actually believe her friend over Spike.

* NEW! Unable to curse Xander with the help of other Scoobies, Anya goes to someone who actually hates Xander: Spike. Unfortunately though, her efforts to get him drunk and trick him into wishing Xander bodily harm take a turn for the twisted and the two very drunk demons end up trying to sooth their broken hearts by moving on...with each other. What the two don't realize though is that a hidden camera in the Magic Box catches the whole event on camera, allowing the entire rest of the gang and the Trio to witness it.

From episode 19 - Seeing Red:

* NEW! The Trio do something that leads to Jonathan and Andrew getting arrested. Warren on the other hand avoids being caught and instead begins his solo career. If you doubted he was evil before...you won't by the end of this episode.

NEW! Spike locates Buffy and tries to make her "feel" again, but ignores the fact that she isn't interested. Buffy overpowers him and makes it very clear that he went *too* far, which awakens Spike to the reality of the situation. He acts of his own free will, but he is led by emotions and his intentions are not to hurt her. (Thanks to Wendy for help in clarifying some details.)

From episode 20 - Villans:

* NEW! Spike shows up in Africa where he puts his life on the line to get the chip out. He meets with a demon and confidently agrees to take on whatever challenges the demon offers as long as he gets the chip removed if he wins.

* NEW! With so much danger surrounding the gang, Buffy takes Dawn to stay with Spike, but instead encounters Clem crypt-sitting for the vampire and learns that Spike left Sunnydale for a while.

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No, please. I mean, tell me if I said something wrong otherwise I know I'll say it again. Probably often and in public.

[supermus]

I've made my decision. After I read AngelX's Spike update today, I'm quitting spoilers until the end of the season. I know that in the Final Four, a lot of shits gonna go down, and I wanna be surprised and be in suspense for that. So Fare thee well spoiler thread, see ya in 2 months.

edited to add: stupid me, I've been offline for an hour or so cuz my keyboard was broken, i didn't know the spike stuff was put on.

[This message has been edited by supermus (edited March 15, 2002).]