Containing Vectors-Tracking ME Writers

[WebWarlock]

The Signal Has Stopped.

That's my new motto!!

Too fucking great.

Warlock

[sam7777]

The best thing about it is we don't have to say anything as there are lots of others to say it for us.

[Sheridan]

It's always good to see someone willing to remind people of the real reason Firefly/Serenity failed, it simply wasn't any good.

[gspiggott]

I want a The Signal Has Stopped t-shirt. I'm tired of the Fox showed the episodes out of order excuse. I became a fan of Farscape in the middle of season 2 and had no clue what was going on, I simply felt that I was watching an intelligent and unusual show. Fox left this turkey on the air for 11 weeks when they yanked a David Kelly show after two. They had the cast sit behind home plate when Fox was broadcasting the playoffs. Whedon talked it up in every genre magazine a year in advance , hell he even had a magazine of his own to promote it in. AND IT STILL BOMBED. Just like the movie. I just wanted to point that out.

[sam7777]

Speaking of Sereneshit bombing, the prediction sites have it off the top 10 in this weekends box office:
Box office Guru's Weekend Box Office (October 14 - 16, 2005) has no mention of Sereneshit and predicts the following:
-----
The Fog -- $17M
Elizabethtown -- $12M
Wallace & Gromit -- 10.5M -35%
Domino -- $7M
Flightplan -- $7M -35%
In Her Shoes -- $6M -40%
-----
Box Office Mojo's BOX OFFICE FORECAST predicts: (in millions)
-----
1 The Fog -- 13.0
2 Elizabethtown -- 11.8
3 Wallace and Gromit -- 11.6
4 Flightplan -- 7.6
5 In Her Shoes 6.6
6 Domino -- 6.2
7 Two for the Money -- 5.3
8 The Corpse Bride -- 4.5
9 The Gospel -- 4.0
10 A History of Violence -- 3.5
11 Serenity -- 3.2
12 Waiting -- 3.1
-----
It's quite possible give Box Office Mojo's number that Sereneshit could drop below Waiting to 12th place. Given that Sereneshit is dropping quicker than "A History of Violence", it's likely the latter will end up grossing more. And I'm not the only one who thinks Sereneshit will saty below waiting.

This is what Box Office Mojo's Box Office Derby is predicting: ($ in millions)

Rank Title Avg. Pred.
1 THE FOG $14.8
2 ELIZABETHTOWN $13.9
3 WALLACE AND GROMIT: THE CURSE OF THE WERE-RABBIT $11.0
4 DOMINO $9.1
5 FLIGHTPLAN $7.2
6 IN HER SHOES $6.6
7 TWO FOR THE MONEY $5.0
8 THE GOSPEL $4.4
9 TIM BURTON'S CORPSE BRIDE $4.2
10 A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE $3.4
11 WAITING... $3.4
12 SERENITY $3.0

Personally I think Sereneshit will drop another 50% to $2.4milllion instead of the ~37% being predicted.

Box Office Report's Box Office Forecast (Oct. 14 - Oct. 16) predicts: ($ in millions)

Movie Gross Total Change
1 The Fog $15.0 m $15.0 m NEW
2 Elizabethtown $13.0 m $13.0 m NEW
3 Wallace & Gromit $11.0 m $31.8 m -32%
4 Flightplan $7.5 m $71.5 m -30%
5 Domino $7.0 m $7.0 m NEW
6 In Her Shoes $6.8 m $20.5 m -32%
7 Two For the Money $5.2 m $17.0 m -40%
8 The Corpse Bride $4.2 m $48.2 m -35%
9 The Gospel $4.0 m $13.0 m -47%
10 Waiting $3.5 m $12.0 m -42%

I think that the big story here is movies that started out slower like "A History of Violence" may well end up out grossing it.

[WebWarlock]

Here is my new t-shirt.

"Stopping the Signal since 2002"



Warlock

[Blue Pariah]

A dark stage with a single spotlight. The sound of a match being struck. A lone sax starts wailing. A man with a porkpie hat and too much stubble walks into the spot. And he begins to beat-poet:

Well Small Joss got rained on, by his own crappy fans.
Nobody flinched down by the arcade
And the Brownshirts were all weeping, they went stark raving mad
And the Kittens were the only ones that really had it made
And his grimy t-shirts were all twisted
And the excuses high and shrill
And crumpled in his fist was a fifty million dollar bill
And the escaped cultists with their cheshire grins
And the raconteurs and roustabouts said buddy come on in
Cause The Dream is broken down here now... he’s lookin’ like a gimp
Now that Small Joss got rained on, by his own crappy fans
And nobody flinched down by the arcade
And his access has been disconnected
And his career starts to rattle
No more tellin’ jokes about a space-whore and some cattle
And his actors plead the 5th amendment
And merchandise is bargains galore
But the blood is in the water
And he’s gettin’ shown the door
And its a hot rain on Fourth-Time-Loser street
And now the umbrellas aint got a chance
And the wonderboy’s a lunatic with stains upon his pants
Cause... Small Joss got rained on, by his own crappy fans
And no one’s gone over to open his eyes
And there’s a Serenity script in his pocket
He said “We’ll do this one third”
And the execs at Universal didn’t say a word
As the whining tears the night in half
And someone lost his talent
Well its a refutation of reputation biggest egoontheplanet
But the whores still smear on
And their pants look like too tights
And their shirts are brown as sin
And their guns are substitutin’
And their singin’ is a wreck
And no girl’ll let ‘em kiss her,
But what the hell did you expect
His weekend takes are tragic
They stink like old perfume
The only job he can get... is sellin’ Christmas cards in June
But... Small Joss got rained on, by his own crappy fans
And his headstone’s the Serenity
No more cowboy slang or chinese swears or slinky gowns or thieves
Someone’s tearing down the sets, orders from Head Cheese
Small Joss got rained on, by his own crappy fans
And a thimbleful of dollars can’t change that
And someone copped his snarkness
And someone got his themes
And the Newboys made his stuff seem thin and flat
And the ridiculous old man at his failure screamed and coughed
And he should head south until his press-love has worn off
Cause Small Joss got rained on, by his own crappy fans
Yeah, Small Joss got rained on, by his own crappy fans.


Adapted from “Small Change” by Tom Waits.

[Garner]

Blue Pariah, very good! Hilarious. I love it. A nice knock on the Josswad, let's just hope that others see the emporer's clothes for what they are too.

Garner

[WebWarlock]

BP!

Excelent man! Good to see you here.
Join in the fun! Serenity is a dud.

Warlock

[xita]

Excellent BP! And we didn't have to do a thing. It's Karma!

And can we say 2.3 for the weekend.

[WebWarlock]

More shit is coming out of Marti's mouth. You can tell cause it is open.

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire2005/index.php?id=33030

Buffy Movies Straight To DVD?

Marti Noxon, executive producer of UPN's Buffy the Vampire Slayer in its last seasons, told SCI FI Wire that the popular series' characters may live on in direct-to-DVD movies. "There are serious discussions going on about bringing some of the characters back and making a few movies that will go straight to DVD, but they will certainly be the quality they have always been," Noxon said in an interview. Continued fan interest in a big-budget Buffy film has led creator Joss Whedon to consider a series of movies that would focus on some of the secondary characters, she added.

"Joss is the king of jumping mediums, so it is an obvious step for him to do this," Noxon said. She said that a few of the show's past writers, such as Drew Goddard, have been contacted about turning in script ideas that would center on the minor characters. But Noxon said that she doubts that star Sarah Michelle Gellar would reprise her role as Buffy and added that she thought it might be tough to persuade Alyson Hannigan to return as Willow. Both Gellar and Hannigan have moved on to film roles, and Hannigan is now a regular on the hit CBS sitcom How I Met Your Mother.

But Noxon said that a film centered on James Marsters' Spike or David Boreanaz's Angel could do very well. (Marsters currently has a recurring role on The WB's Smallville, while Boreanaz is a regular on Fox's Bones.)

At the moment, Noxon said she isn't involved in writing any of the DVD movie scripts, but that she could be in the future. (Noxon is currently a consulting producer on Fox's Prison Break.) "If I get involved it would be for the Buffy-related films, not Angel, because I'm far more plugged into Buffy," she said.

This just reeks of desperation.

Warlock

[sam7777]

So Noxious is now a "consulting producer". That's a big step down from being the exec producer on PeePee, Stillborn and BTVS AND she has never been able to develop her own project, a benefit to all of us.

Marti Noxon, executive producer of UPN's Buffy the Vampire Slayer in its last seasons, told SCI FI Wire that the popular series' characters may live on in direct-to-DVD movies.

So what happened to the telefilms? Prolly the WB had no interest without any of the actual stars of the Buffyverse. Apparently James Marsters isn't enough to convince the WB to pony up which is what I thought.

"Joss is the king of jumping mediums, so it is an obvious step for him to do this,"

Nice spin Martt fuckwit. It's really not a good thing to go from movies to TV to DVD only release. That's called taking BIG steps down in your career. Josswad is King of nothing.

Continued fan interest in a big-budget Buffy film has led creator Joss Whedon to consider a series of movies that would focus on some of the secondary characters, she added.

Yeah cuz you KNOW they can't get any of the lead characters with David, Sarah and Aly having moved far on. Another baseless rumor to dangle before their gullible and shrinking fan base. I wish I had a dollar for every time they were in "serious discussions" with jack shit happening: Ripper, Faith spin off, the TOON, return of the Buffy montly comic, Angel telfilm, Buffy theatrical film, Spike telefilm ETC ETC ETC ad nauseum

YAWWWNNN. I wish these shits would get a new tune and Marti would just shut the fuck up.

[Culzean]

Sometimes I get the feeling that they (ME alum) just don't want to have to say "No, I'm not working on anything substantial at the moment, nor do I have any projects lined up in the near future. Basically, nobody wants to work with me."

Instead, they throw out any cockamamie idea they come up with to try to make it sound like they're busy and in demand.

It really is pathetic.

[Sheridan]

Instead, they throw out any cockamamie idea they come up with to try to make it sound like they're busy and in demand.

I think it's that and the fact that they need to throw some bone to the Jossophiles now that Serenity has crashed and burned. You watch, those guys who were all fired up about Serenity will drop it now and start yammering about who might be in the Buffy movies, when they could come out, and of course whining about the ungrateful actors when they don't happen.

[helpfulinformationperhaps]

how do you have a buffy movie without buffy?
and if you can't get the main character back - is there any wonder neither WB or UPN are willing to pony up for a tv movie where minor characters from a canceled tv show are featured

they started out talking about a movie and then a tv movie - so the mere fact that they are talking about direct to video stuff now shows there is NO INTEREST from the suits to put money behind this without the stars

this like whedons cartoon are just so much talk

[sam7777]

It really is pathetic.

Yeah. Fox fuckwits gave 7 figure contracts to Josswad, Noxious, JaneEcch and Whinear with nothing to show for it.

Josswad gave them the failure that is fireshit which stunk so bad they let him out of his contract to shop it around to equally dumb fuckwits at Universal.

Whinear contributed to failures Fireshit, WonderWhyFalls and The Inside.

JaneEcch helped kill Tru Calling and The Inside and helped give Gilmore Girls it's lowest rated season.

Noxious gave them the awful shit that was season sux, StillBorn life and PeePee. Looking at Noxous' titles from IMDB, you can see the career regession:

From "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" (executive producer, 2003)
to "Still Life" (executive producer, 2005)
to "Point Pleasant" (executive producer, 2005)
and now down to "Prison Break" (consulting producer, 2005)

"Prison Break" is a hit no doubt due to the fact that Noxious has not written a script fo ritr. I think the consulting producer shit is her getting coffee for the actual talented people on the show while Fox tries desperately to use up her 7 figure contract.

[xita]

Amazing how accurate predictions are. Serenity is crawling to 25 million as was predicted after its first weekend. Here's the weekend run down:

17 Serenity Uni. $319,000 -69.7% 311 -576 $1,025 $24,842,000 $39 5

Oh and found this on David, I don't think he has any intentions of ever working with buffy people:

Highlights:

LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) His appearances as a soulful vampire on Joss Whedon's "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and his own spin-off, "Angel," made David Boreanaz a star. But Whedon -- a writer, director and producer -- believed that the actors on his shows should say their lines only as written.

and:

As Booth, Boreanaz gets to play around with his lines, which is a big change from his "Buffy" and "Angel" days.

"That became very frustrating," he says. "For an actor to be able to create and also have a sense of freedom, you have to be able to revolve around those words and create around those words. Now, you can take the written word and have your subtext tell more than is written on the page, which is always fun and challenging too. But it's always great to revolve around the words and improvise and change things, because that comes from the character's perspective and point of view.

[sam7777]

As Sheridan has said, on many other genre shows like Trek, the actors got to direct, contribute story ideas and in general be a part of the creative process. Josswad's meat puppet 'tude has lost him actors. I remember when his name was bandied about for X-men 3 and several of the actresses decided they didn't wwant to do it: Famke Jansen and Halle Berry. Both are now working on X-men 3. I believe that Charisma and Sarah have spread the word on Josswad and that actresses that have options are reluctant to work for him. This will be a huge liability on Wonder Woman if they pick him for that project.

Frankly, without David or Sarah an Angel or Buffy movie is not possible. I really don't think the WB or anyone else will pony up for a telefilm without stars. James Marsters is not enoough of a draw by himself.

[WebWarlock]

I bet movies/TV are off the table now alltogether.

Look at this new wad of crap.
Danger: incoherent babbling of an idiot to follow. Bold is me.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/8735

November 09 2005
Joss to never learn how to work site! Man is complete Melvin! Mock him!

It's true! I want to post, but I suspect my post will appear as the actual link to my post. And this after having my own password e-mailed to me 17 times. But just so you know, I happen to be a swell cook. And when the internet has a 'smell' function, you'll be able to tell that I... oh God. That's a horrible thought. 'Smell' function? From every computer? I think I just destroyed society as a concept. Anythough, I'm counting on some administrative muckity to turn whatever this comes out as into a real post. From me to you, sweet thang. (That only applies to those of you that are sweet and thangy.) (But the others can read it too.)

So what's up? Not sleep, sleep's not up... But I've been wanting to check in and let you know what's going on with me, Joss Whedon. In fact, there's even a tiny scoop or two in here!

Well, first of all, what a blast I've had with the release of Serenity! $267 million at the box office -- in Des Moines alone! Ten sequels lined up, March declared "National Serenity Awesomeness Month", Nathan made President for Life of Canada AND Greece (his will be a bloody and righteous rule), and Summer's feet to be exhibited at the Tate, when she has time to stand around at the Tate. (She should bring a book.)

So, okay, maybe SOME of my expectations were a hair unrealistic, but I'm so proud of the movie and all my peeps, and we'll drag it into the black (or take it out to the black) soon enough. That's DESPITE the Scrooge-like apathy of people like Mike Alward -- only one theater? Spread the wealth, pal! On the closest I ever get to a serious note, somebody should link his name to the Serenity site, 'cause they've been up in trying to find ways to bring people in and I think Mike really went to the mattresses there -- to be rewarded with a fair amount of snark here.

I know there's been some debate about the DVD art. Just remember it's what's INside that counts, as I used to remind girls in high school constantly. CONSTANTLY - until I realized that I was empty inside. Empty and homely. Man, that's a rough combo. Where was I? O yea, the DVD. I will admit there were a few better quotes they could have used to sell the film, among them:

"A brilliant film with heart, humor, and outstanding action. It should sweep the Oscars." -- Ron Notmadeupperson

"I've never seen a better film. In fact, I've never seen any film." -- President Abraham Lincoln

"I want to take this film and cover it in oil and rub it all over my body" -- Name Withheld (but it was Tim)

"This film has... events..." -- David Denby

"And this isn't my nose, it's a false one!" - A Witch

And now on to the rumors and allegations section. Many of you want to know what the future holds. Anxiety, hurricanes, and Male Pattern Baldness. But maybe also some art-stuff, which is really what you guys are into. No, I don't know anything about sequels, or spinoffs, or Nathan's President for Life gig. I'll keep my ear to the ground of course, but for now I'm just going to rest on my laurels (I have two). Oh! Oh! But I will tell you that Brett and I are talking about another three part comic, and it's gonna be a hoot. Takes place during the show, and has some sweet character deaths -- I mean moments! ("And what brings you to our ship, FutureTara..?") Sorry. Horrible taste. (Empty inside!) But wait'll you see the cover...

Speaking of Darkhorse Comics, they are starting a new Buffy comic, and as I understand it, it will take place after the end of Buffy and Angel and be canon in the Buffy world. And I understand it that way 'cause I'M WRITING IT. I'm kicking off the book with a four issue arc that finds Buffy -- you guessed it -- living in Italy with The Immortal. (Scott -- don't be mad I spoiled the announcement -- saying it means I have to finish it.) Then I'll be overseeing the book more closely, to make sure it remains true. Gonna be interesting. And it just might tie in to...

The infamous Spike movie. Still haven't finalized anything, but I feel that very soon I'll be able to go to James and say something a lot more interesting than "Wouldn't it be cool if..." 'Course, I just hope he's free some time this decade. See how my peeps is all actifying! Tomorrow night is AMIAS, (that's alias with Acker in it.) Happy. And totally jealous.

See, the Buffyverse glows in my brain with a new, overreaching arc that will include the comics, Spike, and more. It's taking shape and soon you will know its name. And you will tremble.

Then of course there's a little thing called X-Men, who are apparantly supposed to become astonishing again real soon. I miss me my Cassiday. Can't wait to see the fan response when I kill Wolverine and replace him with fan-fave Marrow.

Well, I certainly can't say much more, except that Wonder Woman is finally kicking ass that is not my ass, as in, I'm loving this script. She's saving the world in a tiara, people; this is why there's a me!

Oh, and there's nothing on TV tonight. TV has been cancelled. Talk amongst yourselves. La la la la la....

Thanks for keeping the faith, bringing the news (I really do learn stuff here) and carrying the banner (That's for us Newsies fans.) (Yes, I just typed that.) It's been a bewildering few months, but the important thing is, the work continues. There's a lot I'm looking forward to. 'Cause remember:

There was a show. Not that many people saw it in broad terms, but it was beloved. Full of humor, love and pain. And though it was a hard-sell emsemble piece with no huge names it in, it got made into a (roughly) 40 million dollar pic -- and with the cast intact. That doesn't happen a lot, but it should, and it did with this film. That's right. I just cannot wait to see RENT.

Stay crunchy, even in milk...

-joss.

Now here is the good part.

I had to dig for this. This is not making news anywhere.

Make of the above what you will.

Warlock

[sam7777]

I also wish josswad like noxious would shut the fuck up. I could only give his shit a quick skim.

Well this is the same stuff that gets dredged up periodically: Spike Movie, Dark Horse ongoing series etc. I expect to hear about Ripper and the TOON any minute now. What this tells me is that the Buffyverse stars are gone and that James Marsters alone is prolly not enough to convince the WB to pony up $$ for a telefilm. Same liar. Same lies. Same sycophants to suck it up.

AND I still don't think that Wonder Woman is going to happen. Josswad is doing no more than many others that Silver has had write a script with no committment to make the movie. Yaaawwwwnnn.

The Buffyverse may well continue in comics but I have my doubts that Dark Horse will committ to an ongoing series when that small fry comics company (IDW) would only pony up for an Angel mini-series. Dark Horse dumped the whole Buffy comics line a couple of years ago and are expanding into Manga.

The Angel miniseries is hardly flying off the shelves:
Top 300 Comics Index

September 2005
#42 SERENITY #3 (Of 3)* 52,312 issues
#134 ANGEL THE CURSE #4 (Of 5) 14,055 copies sold

August 2005
#5 ASTONISHING X-MEN #12 125,834 issues
#47 SERENITY #2 (OF 3)* 47,095 issues
#148 ANGEL THE CURSE #3 (OF 5) 13,239 issues

July 2005
#5 ASTONISHING X-MEN #11 127,768 issues
#49 SERENITY #1 (OF 3)* 38,502 issues
#129 ANGEL THE CURSE #2 (OF 5) 14,657 issues

June 2005
#152 ANGEL THE CURSE #1 (OF 5) 15,357 issues

Notice how without the X-men name, Josswad sells much much fewer comics (-62% for sereneshit and -90% for angel). Given that Angel is averaging less than 15K comics, I don't see Dark Horse committing to an ongoing Buffy series.

Frankly the comics audience is a HUGE step down from TV and movies but that's prolly the only place where josswad can now be even moderately successful.

[WebWarlock]

Well I noticed the Tara slam right away. FutureTara in Serenity? Please.

Takes place during the show, and has some sweet character deaths -- I mean moments! ("And what brings you to our ship, FutureTara..?") Sorry. Horrible taste. (Empty inside!) But wait'll you see the cover...

BUT this is what I see it to mean:
Man did we ever get to him. To still bring that shit up in a completely unlreated forum. Mein Gott in Himmel!

Warlock

[Sheridan]

Actually I'm afraid I gave a perfectly reasonable guy who made the mistake of saying he like Firefly and S7 a serious broadside in another forum. Luckily describing what I'd like to do to Joss fitted in over there so I got a way with it.

[Hemiola]

The rather tasteless Tara reference goes to show that in many ways JW is the perfect examplar of the famous saying: way too clever for his own good....

[gspiggott]

Wouldn't it have made more sense to mention one or two of the Fireflop actors he killed off in the movie instead of Tara, or any of the other beloved characters from his shows he lopped off over the years? It's enough to make you think the backlash really got to him and he's still smarting over it. Good. There's something mildly unpleasant about the way he's glommed onto Veronica Mars, and is commenting on his actor's success on other networks, he just can't stand not to be the center of attention.You don't see Aaron Sorkin or Steven Bochco pulling this kind of crap. I wonder if anyone at Universal lost their job for promoting Firefly as a a franchise deal.

[Hemiola]

Saw an announcement in today's newspaper that "Serenity" will be released on DVD December 20, which the article remarks is one of the fastest theatrical-to-home-video "turnarounds" ever.

More proof, as if any were needed, that this project was essentially DOA (cost=ca.40 million; boxoffice=ca.25 million).

An interesting note: Steven Spielberg noted that even his "turkeys" (such as "1941") have never lost money at the box office (i.e. they always made back their original costs, even if with little profit). Looks like JW's ambitions as a director cannot include such a statement on his resume.

[sam7777]

Tim: The snarky Tara reference is just another examply of how what little talent that josswad had is now gone. Instead of serving his story he's serving his peeves. This is the same 'tude behind the disastrous ad campaign for sereneshit. When you start to belive only those who suck up, it's time to quit.

Hemiola: I'll bet Universal is kicking themselves for not releasing it straight to DVD in the first place.

I wonder if anyone at Universal lost their job for promoting Firefly as a a franchise deal.

Gspiggot: The Chud folks said that there was an exec at Universal who was apparently conviced by josswad that it would be a franchise but I don't remember her name (Alisa Tager?). For contrast, Gail Berman, the Fox exec who cancelled fireshit got a promotion to Fox entertainment president and was recruited away to Paramount:
Grey woos Fox's Berman to Paramount

[sam7777]

Jennifer Lopez, Sandra Bullock May Not Make Wonder Woman Cut

Although names including Sandra Bullock and Jennifer Lopez have been bandied about in recent years to star in the long-anticipated big screen "Wonder Woman," writer-producer Joss Whedon doubts he'll use a big name for the part.

Prolly because he can't get a big name to work with him.

So what is shitwad focussing on now?:

First on Whedon's agenda is the Dec. 20 release of his "Serenity" feature on DVD.

I believe that he will do Wonder Woman when I see it at my local multiplex as I walk by to see a good movie as I walked by Sereneshit to see "History of Violence" taking the only person I know who might have gone to fireshit with me.

Interesting the real "Wonder Woman" making the news these days is:
Antara Mali: The wonder woman not Whedon's shit.

[WebWarlock]

From the "I Just Can't Make This Shit Up" file, I present to you the new Angel comic from Jossyboy.

I guess there are two Spikes now. "Good" Spike and "Bad" Spike. Whatever.

Warlock

[sam7777]

Which comics is that? IDW is doing a one shot (not a continuing series mind you) of Spike but Peter david is writing it not Josswad?
JOSS WHEDON'S "SPIKE" RETURNS TO COMICS IN SPECIAL ONE-SHOT BY PETER DAVID

BTW even the comics will be in trouble if stars Boreanus and Gellar refuse to approve their images for the comic.

It's pretty sad that even nowhere comics company IDW won't do an ongoing series. The Buffyverse is dead.

[Sheridan]

IDW is doing a one shot (not a continuing series mind you) of Spike but Peter david is writing it not Josswad?

Is that the same Peter David who writes the Star Trek: New Frontier' novels? Those are about the best of the Star Trek novels and it would almost be interesting to see what he does with Spike but I'm sure the dead hand of JW will prevent anything creative being done with it.