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Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

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Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Le Serpent Rouge » Wed May 22, 2002 6:36 am

I was just visiting the Zap2It web site & they had the overnight ratings posted for Tuesday's finales. Buffy came in last. Here's a cut/paste of the rankings:

At 8 p.m., CBS won the timeslot with the season finale of "JAG," which received a 9.9/16, followed by back-to-back repeat episodes of NBC's "Frasier" (6.7/11 and 7.8/12 respectively), back-to-back episodes of FOX's "That '70s Show" (5.6/10 and 5.8/9 respectively), The WB's season finale of "Gilmore Girls" (5.2/8), ABC's "That's Incredible: The Reunion" (4.3/7) and UPN's 2-hour "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" season finale (4.3/6).

After watching S6 complete its arc of self destruction, I felt better knowing that Buffy ended the ratings race at the bottom of the list.

A Very Disappointed,
Le Serpent Rouge :(
Le Serpent Rouge
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby kpmuse » Wed May 22, 2002 7:01 am

"That's Incredible: The Reunion" (4.3/7) and UPN's 2-hour "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" season finale (4.3/6).

That's Incredible Reunion beat Buffy! Now that is priceless!
kpmuse
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Rally » Wed May 22, 2002 7:37 am

I am so disappointed they only got two "bitch's" in there last night. I was so looking forward to listening to them continue to spew forth the incredibly offensive dialogue at one another.
Rally
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby tommo » Wed May 22, 2002 7:43 am

What do you mean, bitch?
tommo
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Rally » Wed May 22, 2002 7:53 am

I wasn't talking to you bitch. :p

Actually make that Uber bitch.
Rally
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Warduke » Wed May 22, 2002 7:53 am

What are you two bitches talking about?
Warduke
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby tommo » Wed May 22, 2002 7:54 am

Hey, get off me, moderator bitch!
tommo
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Rally » Wed May 22, 2002 7:55 am

Oh guys, you so need to have every square inch of your bitch asses kicked.
Rally
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Warduke » Wed May 22, 2002 7:55 am

Am I gonna have to bitchslap you bitches?
Warduke
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Unregistered(d) » Wed May 22, 2002 7:57 am

You know, I don't think it was either Xander or Giles who really 'saved' Willow. The magic that she got from Giles was borrowed from the coven.

But it sounds to me almost like the coven could play like the personification of the magic Tara believed in and practiced. So in that way it would be in a sense Tara's magic, or at the very least her kind of magic, that saved her. Which is not without it's irony.

Dark magicks are a solitary art, but Tara's kind and the coven's are a group thing, coming from a place of love and nature.

My problem in all this is that I really do think I get the story and what Joss wanted to do with it. I'm floating toward ambivalence about it, but that doesn't mean I don't get it.

I just don't happened to be as addicted to the misery as he seems to be. Nor is it one of my beliefs that anyone too good, too innocent or too happy doesn't belong in this world.

I mean, Joss. Dude. Prozac. Look into it.


Ari
Unregistered(d)
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Arwen » Wed May 22, 2002 7:57 am

I'm just....I can't believe it. I feel bitter, angry, resentful, but most of all, disgusted. My favourite show on TV down the drain. Oh, and the Angel finale, my other fav was just SO much better. (note the extreme sarcasm.) I think I'm going to stop watching TV altogether seeing as how BTVS and Angel were the only two shows I watched anyway.

Joss, you make me sick. You and your cronies are nothing more than a bunch of pathetic little boys (and girl). Grow up!
Arwen
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Rosenberg » Wed May 22, 2002 7:58 am

I must either be watching a different show than my friends; or else I need to get new friends. Here's a message I received this morning:

        "Good morning,

WOW!!! I thought last night's two episodes were great!! There was so much info and cute references that I wish I had taped it so I could watch it again.

And finally...a happy type ending "

        A happy-type ending? Clearly we define happy endings differently. Willow's lover is dead; Willow goes crazy, kills someone and tries to end the world. This is happy? And stupid Xander gets to be the hero? No, not happy at all in my book.

Message from another friend:

"All of us wanted Willow to continue being the big bad into next season. For Josh (sic) to get her all bad and then as quickly to get her back to normal infuriates us fans."

No, not ALL of us wanted Willow to continue being the big bad. Some of us are appalled and disgusted by the idea of Willow EVER being a big bad. I should never talk to non-kittens about this show. I feel like the voice crying out in the wilderness. Sigh.
Rosenberg
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby tommo » Wed May 22, 2002 7:59 am

Uh oh...moderator's home. I'm in wicked trouble now...
tommo
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby mariacomet » Wed May 22, 2002 8:02 am

Sometimes reading all the posts on a thread is a mistake. I read a bunch of shut that Joss has said, and I am trying to sit there and come up with SOMETHING in my head that will match the guy that said all "Or did it? Yeah it did" with the person I had utter faith in for five years...

And then there's all these Jesus is Xander and the carpenter thing in Xander must be a Jesus reference.

I'm not sure what disturbs me more. Topic A or topic B. Without getting into a long explanation of how christians have Stereotypes too (some of which we earned) Let me state that what Xander did has nothing to do with christianity.

"The Jesus figure" which is used in literature (and sometimes in movies) has not so much to do with love....as it has to do with sacrafice for the sake of love. Often this sacrafice is for people who hate or have wrong the character. Yes, Xander offered to stand there with her. But in the end, this entire season, he has sacrficed nothing. Also, usually in a "Jesus figure" scenario the character is dynamic and powerful.

Um, this is XANDER, people.

Don't compare Xander of this season to Buddha or Jesus or Allah...

compared him to something more suitable....

Like jello. Or....limp celery.

I don't have anything intensely intelligent to add, but let's not shoot ourselves in the foot by hurting those among us okay?

I believe that those here believe that love is....worthwhile no matter who the two partners involved are. Those that don't agree, those that kill the hope in two people loving one another. THEY are the enemy
mariacomet
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby tommo » Wed May 22, 2002 8:05 am

I can't compare Xander to anything. He's a one off. Him and his mantits.
tommo
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Banshee » Wed May 22, 2002 8:06 am

I wasn't expecting much.. and I didn't get much. It sucked. 2 hours on that piece of crap thinking that maybe it would come around.. it didn't. Pheh..

-S
Banshee
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Rally » Wed May 22, 2002 8:15 am

I love the SF Chronicle. I hate the news, don't watch it, but I do read the paper every day.

Time for network report cards

Losing "Buffy" was unfortunate for viewers who had to switch to UPN, but "Gilmore Girls" remains one of the better shows on television.

UPN: Grade: D-minus. This directionless network just changed its logo, but that's unlikely to help. What it needs is a tangible personality. Currently, there are two good shows -- "Enterprise," which successfully continues the "Star Trek" franchise, and "Buffy, the Vampire Slayer." Unfortunately for UPN, after making a big push to steal "Buffy" from rival WB, and over-compensating in the process, [b:eaee905e9c] "Buffy" had its
worst season creatively.[/b:eaee905e9c]

That's the kind of thing that happens to snake-bit organizations. UPN, which programs only five nights (and throws in movies on Fridays, so that doesn't even count), needs to make a statement about why it's even on the air. So far, that message isn't getting to viewers.
Rally
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Denial Queen » Wed May 22, 2002 8:16 am

*sucks the bitterness from the kitten board*

whoa! head rush. whoa! wow! This is incredible! i'm so BITTER! kittens, it's like no mortal person has ever had this much bitterness. EVER. it's like i'm connected to every kitten. I can feel everyone. Oh my god! the emotion. the pain. NO! It's too much. it's just too much. I have to stop this. I'll make it go away.

joss you bastard.Our suffering needs to end.

*goes of to flay JW and the rest of ME*

...and don't go thinking some lousy yellow crayon speech can stop me! :evil
Denial Queen
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby Rosenberg » Wed May 22, 2002 8:21 am

Oh yeah, let me show you what bitterness REALLY is!
Rosenberg
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby xita » Wed May 22, 2002 8:23 am

Oh Rally that's wonderful.


I wanted to clear up my Jesus comment.

I in no way was saying that Jesus would think that about lesbians, or that christians would think that about lesbians. Far from it, I think Jesus would never do this to Willow and Tara.

I am sorry for my statement as it really didn't explain my objections.

I was disturbed that the show would chose that moment to throw in its religious analogies and metaphors. I don't like the connection made and I am not religious, I would hate it even more if I was a christian.
xita
 


Discussion S6E21&22 Two to Go&Grave&qu

Postby oneinten » Wed May 22, 2002 8:26 am

But Denial Queen...
"I love you even when you're all veiny kitten bitter...I love you...and even though you want to destroy Joss...I...LOVE...YOU!!!!"

<insert: "Please help me find my spine now...">
oneinten
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby Rally » Wed May 22, 2002 8:31 am

[img:c3cb10c0ac]http://plum.he.net/~kittens1/images/xander.gif[/img:c3cb10c0ac]

Xander, the early years...

Spinoff anyone?
Rally
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby aeonflux6969 » Wed May 22, 2002 8:33 am

hahaha wow i needed a laugh
aeonflux6969
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby Rosenberg » Wed May 22, 2002 8:36 am

My office partner wants to know why I suddenly started choking. I really shouldn't read this board at work. That photo is just TOO funny! :lol
Rosenberg
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby Warduke » Wed May 22, 2002 8:39 am

Rofl Rally :lol
Warduke
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby TheHighWillowhuggerofOz » Wed May 22, 2002 8:54 am

Awwww, how cute

*Rambling thoughts ahead*

Well I felt the dialogue was trite and as you know a tad offensive but I did like the parallels back to the Season Finale of Season 2.

You know the hospital scene and all that.

One thing to hope for though is that joss does occasionally learn from his mistakes. Season 4 was a travesty after all where we had a man....let's not call him that....Riley humiliate Buffy and the....sorry I just remembered I hated Season 5 because of Anya/Xander too....

And Joss wheldon recognized this.

Still I think one thing to note is Joss hasn't changed but his audience has. Joss has since Season 1 been saying his goal is to take the characters and hurt them as absolutely much as possible. Furthermore he says that his goal is to make sure that no one is definately safe on the show.

Finally his show is meant to be a rip off of other cliches and turning them inside and out. We've had the note that the 'dead lesbian cliche' has been apparently left so but then Joss in his quirky way claims that not killing them is a defense (let's not touch on the idiocy of this statement and instead focus on changing audience)

Heck Joss even cited his sources on the inspiration for Willow (Dark Phoenix and all that) with a nudge, nudge wink wink

So upfront do you think that Joss has changed from old Buffy or his fans have?

I wouldn't by the way hope too much on the ratings, after all UPN isn't that popular of a network either


[b:d4d86234df] *instead of double posting, edit your first post and add anything new to that one, please read the FAQ.[/b:d4d86234df]
TheHighWillowhuggerofOz
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby Lindy » Wed May 22, 2002 8:57 am

LMAO :lol The true hero with his rocket.. crayon.. or.. something.. hehe, good one.
Lindy
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby CaptMurdock » Wed May 22, 2002 9:27 am

Ohh, I know I am [i:6fc0a8b643] so[/i:6fc0a8b643] going to get whacked in the mouth for some of the things I am going to say here....

Let me preface this by saying that [b:6fc0a8b643] in no way[/b:6fc0a8b643] is Tara's death justify this story arc. There are plenty of ways, some of which have been mentioned previously on this thread, that Willow could have gone down the Dark Path without necessitating the brutal murder of a character that was rapidly becoming one of the mainstays. Killing Tara also killed much of the joy that I have for this series, and I don't see how I am ever going to get that back. Virtuall nothing ME can do at this point is ever going to erase what has been done.

However...

As fully spoiled about the finale as I was, I decided to watch it anyways. I have to say, it was not, IMHO, as bad as I thought it was going to be -- if only because this marvelous cast who could turn goat piss into gasoline pulled this finale out of the garbage disposal.

For the most part. Sorry, Ms. Gellar, but even you couldn't pull off the "I want to show you the world" epiphany scene. Nope. Sorry. That said, the laughing breakdown scene, which seemed dumb on "paper" and rather disrespectful to the whole situation, actually worked, again because SMG and ASH have the talent to pull it off. I mean, there are some situations where you've gotten to the place whether you have to laugh or go completely bonkers...if not both. Trust me on this, they were [b:6fc0a8b643] there.[/b:6fc0a8b643]

And, please try to not hate me to hard for this, but...Xander's Yellow Crayon. I can't say that I hated it or that it was stupid. Again, more due to Nick Brendon (and for the love of God, people, if you bag on the Bronzers for calling Amber fat but keep making reference to Xander's "mantits," you are truly no better) than David Fury's writing. Personally, I would have done at least one instance of Dark Willow snarking something like:

"Oh, you [i:6fc0a8b643] love[/i:6fc0a8b643] me. Well, that makes all the difference in the world, doesn't it? Was this what you said to your fiance before [b:6fc0a8b643] you left her at the alter?[/b:6fc0a8b643]"

To which I would have had Xander agree that she was right and that he was stupid for what he did and she can say whatever she thinks will hurt him and he'll still love her.

Still, this finale was not the best work ME has done. Definitely not. Definite plotting problems (e.g. how can Anya go from "I can't read a word of this" to chanting up a shield even Dark Willow can't blow through?) and for all the effects money that they blew on this, the visuals are far from impressive. That fireball effect -- blech. The satanic temple looked total cheeseball, although the CGI hurricane winds blowing around Willow were kinda cool. The story was very disjointed, the pacing was extremely uneven; at times I was going "Oh, get on with the smackdown, already!" Just not up to par.

As for the Spike denoument (sp?): You guys act like getting a soul -- effectively, a conscience, the ability to feel remorse -- as some kind of reward. A lot of Kittens hate Spike for what he tried to do to Buffy (not without justification). Well, if I'm right, he's about to hate himself far worse. This, and probably just to see how Willow might be faring in the aftermath of this shitstorm, is probably the only thing that will make me tune in next season (on a trial basis, I assure you).

Like I said, this season ender does not make me forgive and forget about Tara. Joss' assertions aside, I feel bad for Amber, that her main source of exposure (something just about any actress needs), not to mention income, is gone. Even though the writer in me agrees with Joss that there is no tragedy in killing off a character with no potential and that people don't love, I can't stand back far enough to be objective about this. I loved Tara. She will live in my heart, and the hearts of everybody on this board.

[b:6fc0a8b643] Okay, lay into me now. Really let me have it...[/b:6fc0a8b643]
CaptMurdock
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby TheHighWillowhuggerofOz » Wed May 22, 2002 9:45 am

Well let's not feel bad for Amber. She after all is getting her first movie directed by her out very soon with a stellar cast. I think it'll be a success as well.

She seems to be moving away from acting.

Though admittadly it's not like Seth Green's "I'm too good for this show" garbage which ironically lead to Tara's wonderful romance with Willow.

I've always suspected Joss didn't value T/W as much as he could because of this.
TheHighWillowhuggerofOz
 


Discussion S6E21&amp;22 Two to Go&amp;Grave&qu

Postby Lindy » Wed May 22, 2002 10:09 am

Who is Joss? And since when is Tara dead? What core? Damn, I am confused..


edited to add: The above was refering to a post that is gone now..
Lindy
 

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