Willow ...scene from 4.. - Spoilers

[Lindy]

Pah, fuckers.

~~~~~~~
It's nothing. It's all.. nothing

[Hair Annoyed]

Did Joss declare some sort of moratorium on speaking Tara's name? Even at her grave her name is verboten? I guess her's really is the love that dares not speak its name.



You know, Willow's talking at the grave so casually would seem natural to me if she had been there in Sunnydale the whole summer and had gotten into the habit of doing so. Now, I'm going to assume that she was at the funeral, though we don't know for sure if she was mentally/emotionally capable of attending. And again I am assuming here, but I think she was probably whisked away to England soon afterward and doesn't come back until ep. 3, right? So this is quite possibly her first visit to the grave since the funeral. If this is indeed the case, then "Hey, it's me." just doesn't seem to cut it.

[amberslave]

Why am I not suprised??? Because this show lost the plot somewhere inthe middle of last season. Lack of respect in life, lack of respect in death... typical attitude to the character of Tara.

[Coma123]

I've seen this scene....

Fuck were is it from?

Edit: Bang, got it. Its from a Batman comic, maybe a mini-series based on Robin or at least Nightwing (who was Robin, dont worry). So Dick Grayson goes to his parents grave at the end of the series and says something like "Hi, we haven't talked for awhile".

I wish I could be more specific the comic was from yearrrrrs ago. Can anyone lend a hand?

To be honest though this shite scene isn't really to original in the first place.

Edited by: Coma123 at: 9/20/02 8:51:30 am

[Sparky]

Upset.



Angry....They had to ruin a good thing. Why can't people just leave good things alone. Willow and tara had a good thing, hell they had a great thing. But it was too great for some people, jealous people who had to take it away> And for what? they got their ratings up so screw the whole world.



Okay, I'm done ranting, sorry had to get it out.

She's my girl.

[hush30]

Quote:

---

He'll probably be simply amazed that we're not all bending over to kiss his hairy sweaty feet in thanks

---

I thought you were going to say something besides feet and went to a really scary visual place for a minute.



Joss and ME aren't giving an inch in our direction are they! They think they are with this episode but one grave visit and Tara's name still not mentioned doesn't even come close to how someone like Tara would have been mourned.



I am really surprised! I honestly at least expected a funeral for Tara this season and not just one grave visit at the end of an episode. Don't they know that a funeral can give people just a little bit of closure even though some of us still hold on to the last thread of hope. My thread is splitting and getting thinner and thinner with every episode spoiler.



The scene of Willow at Tara's gave is just going to be heart wrenching. I think Dawn would have been a better choice to visit Tara's grave with Willow, she loved Tara and showed it and Tara always looked out for Dawny.

"I think this line's mostly filler" - Willow in OMWF

[Wiccagrrl313]

Well, I think it's become very clear that ME has no intention of throwing us a bone at this point- they don't want to give any real sense of closure, they aren't trying to give any kind of respect or value to Tara or to W/T's relationship. Now, for the life of me I don't understand *why*- if they're just clueless or intentionally handling things this way for some reason, but I find it really quite offensive and hurtful.

Tracy

******************


VILLOV

I troost yuu. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp!

*******************

Tara. Accept No Substitutes.

[morgan1707]

Just when I thought things couldn't get worse, they did. God, this is disgraceful. Tara was on the show for friggin' two and a half years, yet we get one shitty scene which discusses more about Buffy than Tara, and not even a mention from any other characters.



Thanks for the info, Brad. It must have been hard for you. Thank you for relaying the news.

[vix84]

You'd think they might actually learn something from the response to Tara's death. Not compassion or regret for the viewer, obviously (that's a little too much to expect from ME), but just at least to give us respect, and to just recognize the loss we all feel.



Would it be so difficult for them to make the scene a little longer (just cut out the 126th Spike scene of that ep...), and give Willow the opportunity to actually grieve?



The only thing keeping me going (I probably will watch it) is that Aly will still manage to make the scene wonderful, as terribly written as it is.



Just like after the Crayon speech in Grave when she collapsed, sobbing. The script probably just said "Cry now".

-------------------------

Tara: Hey! You're gonna back off. She said no, and that's it. You're not gonna make her do something that she doesn't want to. And if you try, you're gonna have to go through me first. Understood?

[KISMIC]

vix84: ""Just like after the Crayon speech in Grave when she collapsed, sobbing. The script probably just said "Cry now".""





FINAL SCENE:


Willow sits by *a* grave. Insert tears here.





(note to camera crew: Do not actually show front of head stone with name on it. We have about a minute left over so squeeze the scene in. Also the *person* whose grave it is name is not to be mentioned....)





The End.





You know why is it exactly that we *need* to see Spike topless every.single.episode? If this is what Joss and Co think we need then they seriously need to lay off the crack...


Quite possibly the staff meeting went like, 'Well looks like we really stuffed up. So here's the plan: Pretend Tara was never there! Nobody will ever notice..right?'

[spring98]

Sad Now!!

[relativegirl]

Amy wrote:

Quote:

---

In my head the Scoobies love and support each other. Tara's death would have ground all of their lives to a halt for a while. Willow would be consumed by grief over the loss of her soulmate and that loss would long overshadow her guilt over taking human life.

---

I have a Scooby Gang made up of my best friends from high school and their respective partners. My best friend's partner died unexpectedly after they had been together for 11 years, and after he had been a part of our SG for that long. His death absolutely devastated us. All of us. My best friend most of all of course, but the rest of us were shaken to our cores. And not just out of empathy for Diane. We all loved him. He was Diane's lover, but he was a close close friend to all of us and we all lost him.



He was also the same age as us and seeing someone your own age die leaves its mark. It changes you.



It's been almost five years now and there's still a sense of "someone's missing" whenever we get together. We're not "over" losing him. I doubt we ever will be. I'm not sure we're supposed to ever be "over" losing him.



So that's my baseline from which I measure how ME is handling Tara's death. I don't get it. I really really don't get it. Real people would never act like ME is writing the SG right now. Losing part of your gang is not a "non-event" to be largely ignored until episode 4 when you toss out a cliched grave-site visit by Willow.



The pet hampster on Everybody Loves Raymond got a more realistic send off than Tara is getting.

~ If I should rock you,
the whole world would rock within my arms ~

[stereo33]

relativegirl - I don't get it either! I have also had experience of losing someone close and you don't go round not mentioning the name of the person, in fact that's one of the main ways I personally gain a little bit of comfort. I like to talk to my friends, family etc (M.E. have got it wrong on so many levels).



I suppose I tried to give up figuring M.E. out a long time ago. However, I am still annoyed with myself for letting them upset me when I hear about scenes like this. I will stick with the spoilers though, "maybe" one day something good will come!

[justastraightdog]

relativegirl - you're so right.



And if there has to be a scene at Tara's grave (to be honest, I don't care about any such scene that doesn't include shovels), then it shouldn't be Willow who visits it. Dawn or Buffy - even Xander would be better. Especially if it's a talk-to-the-grave-as-if-she's-still-there scene.



Dawn talking about highschool.



A "Hi, it's me" from Buffy to indicate a routine (hey, she's the slayer - she's around the gravesides every night).



Xander saying that he is worried about Willow and doesn't know how to help her...



But now it's Willow again, and it's the same old mistake again - underlining that for the Scoobies (and for ME) Tara is nothing more than Willow's girlfriend. Only tolerated, not beloved, soon to be forgotten.

_________________________________
No safety or surprise, the end

I'll never look into your eyes...again

from "The End" by Jim Morrison/The Doors

[Sheridan]

I could tolerate the idea of the scen if it was located near the beginning of the ep so we could see how the others respond to the visit, but no it's apparently the final scene so there will be no need to do any follow up.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the
person you l-love

Willow: I am

[starlitefaeriegrrrl]

It's the Willow talking to Tara like she's right there thing that kills me. I find, and I say this while hating the show completely, that Willow's reaction with the invisible conversation is a very true one, then, not to mention heartbreaking. I thought my day couldn't get shittier but, oh look, was wrong.

[VampNo12]

That is what pisses me off the most, the scene at the grave is the final shot. It's like Tara is an afterthought, and we will squeeze in the grief so ME can say "Hey we care look Willow went to the grave, she grieved" (who cares if most of the talk up to the grave focuses on Buffy). And therefore, now she can move-on to someone new ! I hate their "out of mind, out of sight" view, it's just so disrespectful, but at this point nothing surprises me anymore.

[btvs sara82]

Thanks, Brad.



So, that's it? It's the end. The end.

Sorry, I need a break. I'm starting to cry now.







I will go in my kitchen now and I will eat all the cookies I have. Oh, I have no cookies, shit. Damn, then i will go in the fridge and i will eat evrything I have in it and I will drink all the Cola I have. 'Cause I will feel sick! I will spend my time thinking how I'm feeling bad for food and not for this bad-stupid-creazy-fucking-shit-idiot-damn of episode number four of this no light-violent-masochist-sexist-Dawn-centric-and Spike-rap-boy season!!!!!!!



It's midnight here in my city and it would be a time to go bed but how the hell I can go sleep now with the imagine of Willow near Tara's grave saying "Hey. It's me"......... !!!!



The point is: Willow says only "Hey" not "Tara. It's me..." Willow. Who loves Tara as much as is possibile. She doesn't wishpears her name. She says only "hey".

You say "hey" to a person you just meet on that moment not to your lovers. Am I wrong?

They are deleting her name even from Willow's mouth.

This is the master plan.



And they are talking about Buffy. That means all.



I'm not able to continuing writing now, 'cause I'm feeling too bad.

But the point of this season is: Reast in peace Tara and you Willow, it's time to move on. That's all.





Sara

Edited by: btvs sara82 at: 9/21/02 4:56:27 pm

[Blue Pariah]

Quote:

---

I thought you were going to say something besides feet and went to a really scary visual place for a minute.

---

Don't worry, unlike some people, who I will call "Woss Jedon" and "Narti Moxon" to preserve their anonymity, I'm not a complete psychopath.



That's an image that not even 50 gallons of hydrofluoric acid with a napalm chaser can clean out of your brain.

I hold my breath and I hang in the balance

Of a city that reels between despair

And delight

"Blue Pariah" by BRJ

[Coma123]

See the thing about this scene is that we don't know the context. We dont know how Willow reacts before the grave or the other character's reactions so its hard to say what itsl ike but still so far....

[friskylez]

Enid i so agree with what you said..The ONLY thing i can think of is that Joss, ME, Marti whomever, have no reference point for something like this, so they cant relate..Maybe thats why they dont know how to write Taras death and her goodbye



ive never had a lesbian friend whose partner died, so ill just skip that part and we will move on cause i dont know how to write something sensitive, heartfelt, realistic....Geez what a crock of shit...

Tara "Every time I.. even when I'm at my worst ... you always make me feel special. how do you do that?"
Willow "Magic "

[justastraightdog]

"Willow talking to Tara like she's right there"



...and that's a really original idea for a tv show/movie... oh, wait:



"I don't know if we each have a destiny, or if we're all just floating around accidental-like on a breeze, but I, I think maybe it's both. Maybe both is happening the same time. I miss you, Jenny. If there is anything you need, I won't be far away."



Well, that's someone talking to the grave of the love of his live, at the end of a movie... it's Forrest Gump, if you don't recognize it. And even Gump has to say more than "Hey, it's me"...

Edited by: justastraightdog at: 9/22/02 11:28:09 am

[starlitefaeriegrrrl]

"...I hate their "out of mind, out of sight" view..."

Well, it's like with Jessie from the first two episodes. He was Xander's best friend and a good friend of Willow's as well, plus Buffy and Cordelia knew him too, and he died under very tragic circumstances. And yet, seven years later and there has yet to be one post-Harvest mention of him, this boy that Xander was such great friends with. Real sensitive. I remember how I used to wait for just one line of acknowledgment of the character and his passing, but nope. Not ever. And Tara, who was around three years and full the heart of the show, get's barely any more mention than he did.

[calliopesage]

ugh.





i don't know what to say. i don't know why i was still holding out hope thinking ME could somehow redeem theselves or at least make the show watchable again. i am at a loss for words.



and forever, dammit!!!!



thank goddess for the kitten.



and hugs to all kitties!



calliope

[vix84]

Quote:

---

vix84: "Just like after the Crayon speech in Grave when she collapsed, sobbing. The script probably just said "Cry now"."

FINAL SCENE:

Willow sits by *a* grave. Insert tears here.

(note to camera crew: Do not actually show front of head stone with name on it. We have about a minute left over so squeeze the scene in. Also the *person* whose grave it is name is not to be mentioned....)

---

lol

Kristy, if I wasn't so angry and upset with them, I'd be lmao...

We should write a parody of (how we imagine) next season...what do u think?

-------------------------

Willow: Even I was bored. And I'm a science nerd.

Buffy: Don't say that.

Willow: I'm not ashamed. It's the computer age. Nerds are in. They're still in, right?

[AmbersSecretAdmirer]

I guess if the scene had been longer, a full chunk of dialogue from Willow saying goodbye, prfoessing her love and her grief, would at least have been a satisfying closure.



But Tara is dead, no respect shown by the writers. Tara is taken of Buffy.com, no respect from the writers. They think that all W/T fans are gay (which we're not, me for one), no respect from the writers. Now Willow's grief is trucated into a small single line and symbolic scene.



I am sure it will be moving, AH will see to that. But the writers are continuing their disrespectful attitiude and that is unacceptable. I am now OFFICIALLY PISSED OFF.

[BytrSuite]

The last 5 posts in this thread were reposted in the spoiler thread. I should have left one of them here with this message, but i kind of forgot. Sorry about that.



This is not a general spoiler topic. It is a topic for our pain over one scene in one episode. Please respect that.

————––
"There's a whole lot of singing that's never gonna be heard

Disappearing everyday without so much as a word somehow"

[drlloyd11]

here is the rest of it



If you need me, I'll be drinking. Again thanks to my source..





***Act 1, Scene 11:

Willow and Xander walk through a pretty field. (We

can't see any gravestones in the distance.) We join

mid-conversation.



X: I bet she's giving them great advice.

W: Absolutely. Those kids are lucky to have Buffy

looking out for them. I just wish she believed it.

She's stressing over the whole "college

dropout-not-actually-qualified" thing. Plus, knowing

there's a salivating hellmouth right under their

feet...and the whole...

X: "From beneath you, it devours."

She nods. He shudders.

X: It's not the friendliest jingle, is it? It's no "I

like Ike" or "Milk: It does a body good."

W: I know. It's going to be bad. Real bad. And I

wonder, will I ... If it comes, when it comes, will I

be able to help?

X: I think you will.

W: I don't know. I don't know what I can do/ And

frankly, I'm scared of what I might do.

X: I get that. Figuring out how to control your magic

seems a lot like hammering a nail.

She looks at him, dubious.

X: Hear me out. You're hammering, right?

X demonstrates with a pantominme hammer in the air.

X: If you hold the hammer at the end, you have power,

but not control. It could take two strokes to hit in

the nail. Or you could hit your thumb.

W: Right. Ouch.

X: So you choke up, then you have control, but no

power. It could take ten strokes to knock the nail in.

Power, control; it's a tradeoff.

W: That's actually not a bad analogy. (beat) Except,

I'm less worried about hitting my thumb and more

worried about going all black-eyed baddy and

bewitching that hammer into cracking open my friends'

skulls like coconuts.

X: Right. Ouch.

W: (off his look) Sorry. (then) I don't know, Xander.

Being back here? I'm not sure I'm ready.

X: You are, I mean it'll take time.

He indicates the area ahead with a nod of his head.

X: Are you sure you're ready for this?

She nods. He touches her arm. And lets her go on

alone.

He walks back. She walks forwards and we move with

her, revealing for the first time that she's walking

amid gravestones. If we want to crane up at this point

we'll see we're in the cemetery.



New shot, level with Willow. The camera tracks W as

she finds the gravestone she's looking for. W kneels.

The camera moves closer still. Until we're close on

the marker itself. Tara's name and dates. Slowly, W's

pale finger traces Tara's name in the stone. And then

the dates. As she reaches the year of Tara's death,

the hand begins to tremble.



Angle on W as she brings her trembling hand to her

lips. She slumps; sits between her bent knees, liek a

child. She begins to quietly cry. After a moment, she

forces herself to smile through her tears as if not

wanting to upset Tara. Reaches out and touches the

stone again, holding her hand there, like she's

touching Tara.

W: Hey.

Then she takes some pebbles from the ground and puts

them atop the gravestone. (This is Jewish tradition.)

W: It's me.

Then silence, as we hold on Willow with Tara's

gravestone.



Act 2, Scene 24

Buffy's living room, their new "HQ." Willow is working

on her computer, anxious to be helpful.



Oh blah blah blah research. Don't make me type this.



Willow finds a web site with psychic girl's poetry.

She reads it. They comment on it etc.



W: "I don't know. A lot of teenagers post some pretty

angsty poetry on the web. I even posted a melodramatic

love poem or two back in the day."

X: Love poems?

W: I'm over you now, Sweetie.

X: (flattered) Love poems.

W: Look, all I'm saying is that this is normal teen

stuff. You join chat rooms, you write poems, you post

Doogie Howser fanfic. It's normal, right?



Act 3, Scene 30



Buffy is reading Cassie's poetry at her computer at

work. Begin montage of scenes, with Cassie doing

voiceover, reading her poetry. Cassie with Dawn and

other kids. Buffy, Dawn, Willow and Xander doing

research. Cassie in her bedroom.

Cassie (voiceover): "When I am but a memory/ A laugh

in the trees of time."

Willow stands near the window, looking out, thinking

of Tara. She touches the glass, rubbing her fingers

along its smooth surface.



Ok, I think that's it for Willow scenage.



**

[relativegirl]

I'll be joining you for that drink.

~ If I should rock you,
the whole world would rock within my arms ~

[Dave V]

Thanks drlloyd11, and much kind thanks to your source.



Yeah, I think a good stiff drink is in order right now. I'm glad I won't see Aly's performance as she cries over Tara. Again.