The Deathwatch thread for ME shows

[Sheridan]

Basically ME had three serious spinoff options: Dawn, Faith, and Willow. It's a little surprising that an allegedly professional outfit like ME failed to make any of them happen but if you ignore character development and piss of your actors, or more accurately actresses, that's what you get...

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the person you l-love

Willow: I am

[kajo 2000]

Someone claiming to be Joss posted to the Bronze Beta yesterday saying that Angel has been renewed:

Quote:

---

Joss says:

(Thu May 8 2003 17:14:46 140.98.210.253)



Hi kids,



No, this is not the evil anti-Joss. I wear no goatee/van-****/fu-manchu facial hair. I follow not the path of the scar-faced Spock.



I am the real deal. The gala mandala. The free chi.



I merely wish to spread good will hunting and Matt Damons to all by stating that Angel will definitely be back next season. The official news spews next week.



Kai and I love you all, love each other, love ourselves, make love to elves, and are often fresh on Hobbits.



Bugs and Krishnas to all!



Joss

---

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"I want to be Byron... because I want to date young boys." Amber Benson

Edited by: kajo 2000 at: 5/9/03 8:07:13 am

[WebWarlock]

hmmmm.



That is not one of his IP addresses. Least not one I know off.



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side,
home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks

"If this is all the gods can do, I'm over to the Darkside so fast." - Tom Servo Mystery Science Theater 3000, Episode 903 "Pumaman".

[helpful information perha]

WW - just putting that IP addy into a google websearch turns up



From: Tony (alcatraz.ieee.org -140.98.210.253) Subject: New health

study on vegetarian diets Date: March 10, 2003 at 10:38 am PST. ...

http://www.vegsource.com/talk/veganism/ ... 77337.html

Edited by: helpful information perhaps at: 5/9/03 9:18:07 am

[drlloyd11]

faaake

its owned by

OrgName: Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers

OrgID: IEEE

Address: 445 Hoes Lane

City: Piscataway

StateProv: NJ

PostalCode: 08855

Country: US

[kajo 2000]

drlloyd11: Thanks for checking that out - I was suspicious because Tim Minear said they would not know anything for sure about Angel until next Tuesday but Whedonesque linked to the BB post and seemed to think it might be genuine.

---------

"I want to be Byron... because I want to date young boys." Amber Benson

[WebWarlock]

yeah I pinged it as well.



The Kitten is still the best information gathering service on the net.



Warlock

-----

Web Warlock

The Other Side,
home of Liber Mysterium: The Netbook of Witches and Warlocks

"If this is all the gods can do, I'm over to the Darkside so fast." - Tom Servo Mystery Science Theater 3000, Episode 903 "Pumaman".

[sam7777]

Thanks guys. How pathetic is it that they have to make up a story about Angel being renewed now when we will all know in 4 days?



I think that the WB is holding off on either renewing or cancelling Angel until they see which of their pilots will make it on the air as a series next season. I think that "Tarzan and Jane" is a lock, the GG spin off is likely and "One Tree Hill" and "MacGyver" are possible (50-50 chance?). I see the possible slots are 9pm on Sunday, Tuesday and Wednesday.



One possibility is that the WB keeps Angel on Wednesday and puts a new series before it keeping the GG/Smallville juggernaut on Tuesday and putting a new show after Charmed on Sunday. This strategy make Wednesday night pretty risky since the new show would not have a lead-in and Angel is fading and will continue to do so next season. The other possiblity is moving Smallville to Wednesday as the lead-in to a new show and also using GG and Charmed as new show lead-ins. This gives them 3 strong shows as lead-ins. Angel has proved unable to take advantage of either Charmed or 7th Heaven's strong lead-in. I suspect that Angel would also do poorly after Gilmore Girls and that the WB would not waste the lead-in form their strongest show, Smallville on fading show Angel. The WB may love Angel's new concept but the show has never fit in well with the rest of the shows in their network.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 5/9/03 10:21:01 am

[helpful information perha]

Sam - your assuming that WB would be willing to 1) move smallville from its present 9pm slot and 2) move it to an earlier time slot to serve as a lead in



smallville is the #1 show on WB - they may not want to mess with it since its still building an audience - and moves don't always go well -- it's also a show that seems more suited to a 9pm slot given its content and the fact that they are pushing its content now - not to mention there are often more viewers watching the tube at 9pm so greater "potential" audience in the young adult segment

and it works well against UPN for the boy numbers in the tue slot while holding the girls of gilmore -- not to mention bringing more boys to the gilmore girls

[sam7777]

HIP: I think it would be a better move to move Smallville but the WB certainly might not for the reasons you give.



That leaves just two 9pm slots: on Sunday and Wednesday. I don't think the WB will put Angel on after Charmed and so that leaves it on Wednesday if renewed with a blank slot before it. Angel has not proven to be a ratings draw this season and I doubt will be of help to any new show on at 8pm, Wednesday. Another possibility is that the WB will go with all new shows on Wednesday: GG spin off followed by "One Tree Hill" to get the same combo of boy/girl numbers that GG/Smallville gets.



In any case, I think that the WB will be sorry if they renew Angel. ME claims they will get an all star staff but many of the ME writers have already moved on. IMHO the WB will end up with a fading show with the Buffy left overs.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 5/9/03 4:46:24 pm

[helpful information perha]

Sam

I don't see WB moving smallville (which is an established 9pm show) to a 8pm slot - its too adult



and the sunday 9pm slot seems to already be reserved for a newcomer

[sam7777]

HIP: That would leave Wednesday at 9pm for Angel with a new show to precede it like "One Tree Hill". Upon reflection, it's possible that the WB would then renew Angel to avoid having all new shows on Wednesday. That may explain latest rumor printed by Futon Critic and others:

Quote:

---

On the bubble series "Angel" and "What I Like About You" appear to be inching closer to renewal however the network insists they are still sorting through their pilots for next season.

---

I don't see the WB putting 2 new shows on Wednesday.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 5/9/03 4:48:36 pm

[Sheridan]

When a series is #1 on its network other shows work around it. Why would they mess with a winner like Smallville to help a loser like Angel?

Willow: ...I have to tell you....

Tara: No, I understand you have to be with the person you l-love

Willow: I am

[sam7777]

I was hoping that they would use Smallville to launch a new show on Wednesday and take away Angel's slot.



Sunday: Charmed/Tarzan and Jane

Tuesday: GG/GG spin off

Wednesday: Smallville/One Tree Hill

or

Sunday: Charmed/Tarzan and Jane

Tuesday: GG/Smallville

Wednesday: Young MacGyver/One Tree Hill



or any WB schedule without Angel. However, I don't think that the WB will put on 2 new shows on Wednesday which would improve Angel's chances to keep it's Wednesday 9pn slot.



In any case, Angel's fate should be decided when the WB makes their WB Upfront Sales Presentation on Tuesday, May 13, 2003 from 9:00 am to 12:00 pm EST (from Futon Critic)



I personally would like to see ME without any shows on the air next season.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

Edited by: sam7777  at: 5/9/03 3:34:47 pm

[BBOvenGuy]

I would expect the WB to use a successful show to launch a new one. They've done it before. In fact, they did it with Buffy in Season 2, when the show was moved from Monday 9:00 to Tuesday 8:00 and used to launch Dawson's Creek. Also, remember that the WB had a successful Thursday night with Gilmore Girls and Charmed, but then they moved Gilmore Girls and used it to launch Smallville.



Therefore, I think it's perfectly reasonable to speculate that the WB might break up its current Tuesday lineup in order to move either Gilmore Girls or Smallville to Wednesday and pair it with a new show. That doesn't mean they'll do it, but it's a definite possibility.

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

Edited by: BBOvenGuy  at: 5/9/03 4:15:51 pm

[Puff]

EW did a 2 page thing on the finale of Buffy. Fittingly they have a tiny bit with Aly and Nick who both found out by reading EW that they wouldn't have jobs later this year. (Although I suspect Aly will work more) There's one really nice picture of Aly in it (page 45) and a tiny funny moment...



"I always thought this would be the last season," objects ASH, who became a recurring character two years ago in order to spend more time withhis family.

"That's great," cracks Hannigan, "but you bailed out after season 5, so shut the hell up!"



Oh and for all you kittens...

Apparently Joss's toughest moment was filming the last scene with Aly "My voice cracked. She's such a dear friend. I was like Oh, God. Something really is ending."



Nice of Joss to finally notice.

---

Cheese. It's milk that you chew.

[BBOvenGuy]

gspiggott first mentioned this in the Angry Rant thread, but I'll post the details here.



Whedonesque has now posted the following follow-up to the earlier post on Angel's renewal:

Quote:

---

Joss says: OKAY! for the first time ever, someone pretended to be me with some measure of success! Congratulations. Here's exactly what came of it: the brass at the WB saw the post, thought it was me, and got wicked pissed off. The fact is, they are still deciding the schedule, and Angel's future is still in doubt. Making them angry at this stage is, shall we say, unhelpful. Hopefully my colorfulness will make it clear I'm me, I don't have time for the usual funny.

---

All I can say is - if the WB got "wicked pissed off," then someone should buy that imposter a brewski... : -->

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[helpful information perha]

sam/bob - yes wb has and certainly could move any show anywhere

and I've no doubt they are pouring over their options - running their projections and trying to figure out their competitions moves to give themselves the best advantage to increase their numbers for next year



the question with slots is what can you put in them that will improve on their previous yrs numbers



moving GG's or smallville to anchor another night - carries risk of both 1) a decrease in the shows audience in the new night and/or time

and 2) a yr to yr decrease in the old slots numbers - since a new show in the vacated slot is probably not going to have the numbers of GG's or smallville



so the risk of having 2 slots numbers decline has to be balanced by the potential of the show that is moved to carry with it and build in the new time slot and to help establish its lead out



just considering the netlets



mon

UPN runs their bloc of comedies featuring blacks vs wb's father as head of white family dramas



both networks do well since there isn't a lot of competition for the same audience here



tue

GG's and smallville run against buffy and plat -



with buffy leaving - that opens GG's to growth from buffy's fem audience and hip hop Plat. is no competition for smallville's white male audience

UPN may be filling both tue slots so you have the established hits vs new shows advantage - which could lead to growth



wed

dawsons and angel run against

enterprise and TLZ



a move of smallville vs enterprise

would put both shows in competition for the young white male audience





GG's Vs enterprise would be a better fit for dawsons young female soapish audience and less competition from enterprises male draw - but you risk losing viewers in the move and losing the increase you would pick up from buffy going away on tue



thur

WWE vs WB movies



so if wb wants growth here they need something that will attract girls and pick up some of the boys from the sliding WWE - they are talking comedies





fri

UPN movies vs WB comedies





sunday - its witches and they are looking for a show that will build on the girl/fantasy audience

[xita]

haha that cracks me up, yes indeed hurray impostor!

[Ben Varkentine]

You know, it kind of saddens me for some reason to think that "Angel's" life or death could depend at least as much on stupid stunts like this imposter and bad feeling between between the WB & FOX as on whether or not it's been a good show or not.

Ben



"Any frontal attack on ignorance is bound to fail because the masses are always

ready to defend their most precious possession."

[urnofosiris]

Gosh yeah, stupid stunts are usually the domain of Mr Whedon himself. I can see why he is so upset, it is so easy to imitate him, but then they do say imitation is the highest form of flattery, don't they? In any case Joss Whedon has my sympathies, it could not have happened to a nicer guy.

-------------------------


Coffee, Food, Kisses and Gay Love........Get it while you are hot

[jixer]

Hello Kittens-



I understand Ben's concern. I doubt there would even be a question if three things were different. A loyal following for Buffy in the range it had at the end of season 5 would show a good track record. A secondary product that was critically accepted would show innovation had worked before. On top of that a good working relationship with the producing company would let ME and Fox have a plan for selling and supporting AtS.



Unfortunately ME had "your shirt", Spuffy, SITs, NSSK and Firefly. The relationship with Fox is strained, and I have to say it's not all JW's fault. Fox has been short sighted and greedy with BtVS being 'brought' to UPN. Both companies have treated AtS like a foster child rather than a show with potential.



I don't think it comes down to a over-zealous fan or a feud. It comes down to ME and their past efforts as a mark to judge their future ones.



Still, I think AtS will be back next season. WB may think they need it. My wife likes the series even if I won't give ME any more of my time, so I guess I'll just shrug and look forward to having the computer to myself on Wednesdays.



Thank you for your time,



Jixer

[urnofosiris]

I find it a bit odd that the WB people would get angry first and ask questions later, how long did it take our fellow kittens to realize that wasn't Whedon? Apparently the insane talk was so convincing the WB did not bother to look at the IP. Here's that brewski for Mr imposter:

-------------------------


Coffee, Food, Kisses and Gay Love........Get it while you are hot

[sam7777]

I'm happy to see the controversy as well. I think that Angel's fate depends on the new shows that the WB is considering. Personally, I hope that Angel is not renewed for next year.



HIP: The lastest Pickup buzz Zap2it (posted by Kajo in the spin thread) Indicates that A Smallville mvoe is till possible.

Quote:

---

The Washington Post says the network is thinking about moving "Smallville" from Tuesday to Wednesday, where it could replace the departing "Dawson's Creek" and anchor a night.

---

I hope that it happens so that "Smallville" can be used to launch a new show in the Wednesday 9pm slot.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[BBOvenGuy]

Quote:

---

The Washington Post says the network is thinking about moving "Smallville" from Tuesday to Wednesday, where it could replace the departing "Dawson's Creek" and anchor a night.

---

It's the obvious move, if you ask me. Smallville would be more than a match for Enterprise and could launch a new show in the 9:00 slot, while Gilmore Girls could launch the Jess spinoff in the same way that Buffy launched Angel. They'd get two nights for the price of one.



It makes a heck of a lot more sense than keeping Angel and trying to use it to launch a new drama. If anything, Angel itself needs help more than it's capable of helping another show.

"The first task of anyone, lest you get canceled, is to entertain people, because they ain't there for message." - Dick Wolf

[sam7777]

Bob: Agreed. It's the savvy move IMHO. The WB can use 3 strong shows Charmed, GG and Smallville to launch 3 of their many new pilots as new shows next season. Any new show that hits has more potential than the 1-2 years that Greenwalt said Angel had in it. The WB is in a great potition with 5 of it's 6 dramas up for renewal coming back, they have a pretty stable schedule. They have a solid Monday lineup and solid 8pm lead-in shows on Sunday and Tuesday. Wednesday is that day that needs work for them drama show wise since Thursday and Friday are likely going to be sitcom/reality nights. In all the talk about Angel's renewal this one fact reported by the OC register (posted by kajo) remains:

Quote:

---

Meager ratings and high production costs may force the network to can the "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" spinoff and replace it with a new - and cheaper - drama that has more potential to attract a larger audience.

---

This has not changed IMHO. I hope that the WB can see this as well.

_____________________

I see dead lesbian cliches

[Gatito Grande]

www.aintitcoolnews.com/di...i?id=15184

Quote:

---

WB Renews ANGEL!!!!!!!!!!!!! Spike Aboard!! Cordelia Not!!

I am – Hercules!!



Monday’s Variety reports: "‘Angel’ – with new cast addition James Marsters - is taking flight for a fifth season on the WB.” It’s for a full season, according to the trade paper. But founding cast member Charisma Carpenter, who plays Cordelia Chase, “is not expected to return as a series regular.”

Look for some of the best writers from “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” to jump back to the WB, as well as quite a few other characters last glimpsed on the streets of Sunnydale.

“Angel” will remain at 9 p.m. Wednesdays, but will get a new lead-in as the hit “Smallville” moves to Wednesdays at 8 p.m.

The WB formally announces its autumn slate Tuesday morning.

I am – Hercules!!

---

[kajo 2000]

Here is the original report from Variety:

Quote:

---

NBC extends 'ER' deal, 'Angel' stays aloft

Sun., May 11, 2003, 10:00pm PT

By JOSEF ADALIAN



Warner Bros. TV's "ER" will remain open on NBC until at least May 2006, while 20th Century Fox's "Angel" - with new cast addition James Marsters - is taking flight for a fifth season on the WB.



'Angel' wings in



As for "Angel," Frog has ordered another full season of the Joss Whedon-creative skein and will air the show Wednesdays at 9 p.m., with relocated hit "Smallville" as its lead-in. Frog has an option for a sixth season.



What's more, Paradigm-repped Marsters has signed on to reprise his "Buffy" role as punker vamp Spike. Other "Buffy" regulars may also make guest appearances next season, while Whedon has vowed to write several scripts and direct episodes of the show.



Jeffrey Bell and Tim Minear will be exec producers/showrunners.



Charisma Carpenter, who plays Cordelia, is not expected to return as a series regular.



"Angel's" recent ratings performance should have made it a shoo-in for a renewal.



Still, WB execs wanted to see how their drama development turned out, and, more importantly, needed to hammer out a new license fee deal with 20th. While "Angel" isn't a particularly expensive skein to produce, it doesn't do very well in repeats, making it tougher for the Frog to turn a profit on the show.



"Until we knew at what price we could close a deal for the series, as well as what the rest of our schedule cost, we couldn't make the call," WB Entertainment chief Jordan Levin said.



Still, unlike the rancorous Frog-20th negotiation over "Angel" sibling "Buffy the Vampire Slayer," Levin said the "Angel" talks repped "a cordial, non-emotional negotiation. "It's a deal that's acceptable for both of us, and also ultimately respects the fans of the collective 'Buffy' and 'Angel' mythologies," Levin said.



Date in print: Mon., May 12, 2003, Los Angeles

---

---------

"I want to be Byron... because I want to date young boys." Amber Benson

Edited by: kajo 2000 at: 5/12/03 10:22:01 am

[drlloyd11]

This is the worst of all possible worlds. Rapist man joins Angel, and Joss gets to play god a bit more.

I need ta drink.

[helpful information perha]

so they are obviously working the male audience here hoping angel (which has skewed male of late) will hang onto smallville's male numbers

and build on smallville's lead in



trouble is I don't see that happening



angel like buffy is a cult show with a shrinking audience and adding buffy characters this year (faith and willow) in guest appearances didn't raise the ratings



cordi not returning is going to depress the ratings



spike (who puts spuffers vs B/A fans) isn't going to play well against angel and his gang - don't see that adding to the ratings - 2 souled vamps is one too many/undercuts the shows lead



and having whedon write/direct angel will only hurt the show - the one ep he did last year looked childish vs the dark angst fest the show has become and fans expect - whedons ep was panned last year - given the more joss/more stand alones/more light / more spike --- I don't see the fans sticking around



it will be interesting to see if smallville can make the transition to a earlier time and different day